Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

Warrior Tourney AAR (1200 points, 15mm, 4’x4’ tables)
I took Tlaxcallans. I was planning on playing Medieval Spanish so Mike
could use my Han and get practice in for Cold Wars, but Steve Hollowell also
brought MS, so I switched to Cortez at the last minute so we'd have 6 different
armies. My army had the Spanish command with HK, field guns, 2xsuper infantry
(LHI, HG/CB all 1HCW and shield) and 2x wardogs. The Spanish except for
wardogs are all Reg A. The Tlaxcallan ally had one LI, 2x Irr A warrior
priests
and 3 units of various sizes of Reg LMI 1HCW/Sh + D front rank and B in
back. 12 bodies total, 2 (count ‘em: 2) scouting points.
1st Game vs Alex Vaeth, Norman Conquest Welsh. Alex I taught to play 7th
back in CO in 1991-3. He is always a contender and would be even more
dangerous if he played more than once-twice a year. My army did not have a
good
answer for 8E spear blocks. I couldn’t get the timing of the war dog hits,
the
shot from the guns and the approach of the HG-using infantry to work. I
killed 200+ points on the left but chose to fight instead of skirmish on my
right
and paid appropriately. Sure, his A’s rolled up when mine rolled down, but
that is my fault for trying even-up combats where a small diversion in dice
would kill me rather than massing on my left and leaving only a couple units
to tie up spear on my right. It is inappropriate to blame the dice in such a
situation – I leaned on a couple of coin-toss combats and got what I
deserved.
I have fought with 1HCW a great deal (quite possibly more than any other
player at this point) and know you can beat LTS on subsequent bounds, but the
initial bound can’t go too badly and they all did. He won a well-played game
5-2 Alex.
AAR Point: With that much LTS on his side and few breakthrough troops on
mine, I needed to concentrate even more than usual and did not. I do like my
new one command behind the other tactics and will continue to refine.
2d Game vs Jon Becker, Early Polish. Jon was looking for revenge for the
previous day’s loss in Flames of War. I have looked closely at the Early
Polish
– some very cool infantry but in the end just too much Irr C for my taste.
I chose in this game to focus on that ‘weakness’. He took 16E of it in
two
8E 2HCT/JLS with B MI blocks and three 4E 2HCW/JLS blocks. My plan was to
screen the big porcupines and kill the 4E LMI. His Knights were various mixes
with SHK/EHK fronts and EHK/HC rear elements. The HG/CB combos with A morale
proved too much for this and they either dodged me or lost in the charge.
The Tlax foot could stand in front of the MI because I had D/B and if he dared
drop his shield I would shoot him to bits. The guns did their usual work
of first forcing the enemy to shove to one side or the other on the approach
and then start getting great shots on bound 3-4. The wardogs did not do much
damage but did great work splitting the battlefield in a manner similar to the
guns. In the end, 2cpf prep wavers and second bound shieldless or Irr A
warrior priest charges did in his LMI and other troops failed wavers nearby.
5-1 me. I have returned as Jon’s nemesis after his brief run two years
ago…
When it comes to Jons, there can be only one…lol
AAR Point: My suspicion that as cool as the army looks that the Irr C foot
would eventually get one in trouble proved correct. I don’t like the mix of
K
either – I want either pure SHK, SHK/EHK or pure HK. SHK or EHK backed by
HC are going to be exploited…and pure EHK die to my weapon of the year, the
CB…
As far as my force goes, this is definitely NOT a list I would take to a
very serious competition. But it is a hoot to play and has taught me a lot
about how I would take and play the force at 1600 points. Just have some more
painting to do…
3d Game vs Mike Turner, Han Chinese. Mike fought Alex to a draw in the
second game, keeping things close (Alex at 8, Mike and I at 7). Now time for
me
to face my own Han army commanded by my Cold Wars teammate. Ah, but who knows
better the weaknesses of the Han than I? lol Mike played very well except
for one key mistake. He used the HC units together to try and quick kill my
LI on my extreme right and there the HC stayed irrelevant. They could have
been interspersed with the spearmen to keep me honest, but instead allowed my
CINC to dress them down alone. I also got a war dog charge off against a
marksmen unit who stuck his head out too far. Mike should have dragged the
wardogs better with his LC and kept his units in a better mixed line. He did
kill
a few things in the blood soaked left of the battlefield, but in the end, I
got his army in retreat, thus defusing the local joke that the Han are
invincible….lol 5-3 me.
AAR Point: Mark Stone and Frank Gilson like their LMI/LHI archers in 6E/2E
mixes and I am beginning to see the light…
Alex won with a point more than I (by winning his last game 5-1) and having
beat me head to head. He thus gains his qualification for the NICT, which is
an excellent result to this tourney since it contained three already
NICT-bound folks, two of whom he beat. I am pleased with Mike’s third place
and am
very much looking forward to playing alongside him again at CW – just hope he
stays healthy…lol
Great stuff and thanks to all for coming.
Jon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Dave Smith]

JonCleaves@a... wrote:

Warrior Tourney AAR (1200 points, 15mm, 4’x4’ tables) I took
Tlaxcallans.

<snipped great battle reports>

**Jon;

Great war stories-thanks for sharing. It's interesting that you
played Tlaxcallans-I have been wrestling with what to do now that my
Romans are just about done (1600 points), and I keep coming back to
the Tlaxcallans using Foundry figures-(they even have a very cool
Spanish ally with dogs and a wheeled gun!) You mentioned that you
would not take them to a serious comp., which leads me to believe
that they may not fare well against some heavy foot and or knight
armies. In fact, they may have a hard time against a well led Early
Imperial Roman army.

I've purchased the lead for the Wallachians, but have cooled with
them since many of the Old Glory castings are a little awkward. I
may donate them as prize booty for Call to Arms.

Thanks for the tactical insights too. I would love to see more of
these reports, which help us 'noobs' along the learning curve.

Dave

[joncleaves]

You mentioned that you
would not take them to a serious comp., which leads me to believe
that they may not fare well against some heavy foot and or knight
armies.>>

No, no, David - I meant I would not take that *particular list* to a serious
comp. I absolutely *would* play these guys, especially at 1600 points. I just
would not take them the way I did - that list was made for one specific purpose
and I just happened to have the figs in the truck at GC when I learned Steve
brought Med Spanish. As I was running the event, I was just there to fill us
out to an even number. Besides, how often do you get to play with both wardogs
and field guns in the same army...lol

<<In fact, they may have a hard time against a well led Early
Imperial Roman army.>>

Oh yeah? Sez you.... ;)

[Dave Smith]

JonCleaves@a... wrote:

No, no, David - I meant I would not take that *particular list* to a
serious comp. I absolutely *would* play these guys, especially at
1600 points. I just would not take them the way I did - that list
was made for one specific purpose and I just happened to have the
figs in the truck at GC when I learned Steve brought Med Spanish.
As I was running the event, I was just there to fill us out to an
even number. Besides, how often do you get to play with both
wardogs and field guns in the same army...lol

****And I responded...'In fact, they may have a hard time against a
well led Early Imperial Roman army.


And then JonCleaves counters....Oh yeah? Sez you.... ;)

****The caveat was 'well led'..hehehehe

****What would you do differently with the Tlaxcallans at 1600
points?

Dave

[joncleaves]

****What would you do differently with the Tlaxcallans at 1600
points? >>

I would not take the war dogs, for one thing. Top players are too good at
dealing with expendables and they are guaranteed points lost. The chances are
you will need to keep your points ratio down and that you won't be able to make
them pay for themselves. They also aren't my 'style'.

I'd have to look hard at the field guns. They sure are fun and I am
deliberately getting better and better with artillery (and the Spanish field
guns are about as good as it gets). I'd have to write a list to tell you
whether they'd be in it or not and I will when I get time.

I'd change the weapons I took in some units. I'd pretty much be taking the CINC
as Spanish to reduce my tlax mins and to get the super infantry, but the tlax
would have to do the majority of the fighting and I'd want to mix up the weapons
by unit-purpose - there would be some 2HCT in there, you can bet on that.

So, I'd end up with no dogs, prob keep the guns and playtest and add another
warrior priest and spend the rest of the points on Tlax warriors. The questions
would be can I make the guns work, what mix of element strengths do the tlax
come in and who gets 2HCT.

J

[Ewan McNay]

JonCleaves@... wrote:
> I'd have to look hard at the field guns. They sure are fun and I am
> deliberately getting better and better with artillery (and the Spanish
> field guns are about as good as it gets). I'd have to write a list to
> tell you whether they'd be in it or not and I will when I get time.

I definitely want to get some practice at least against these guys. The
'norm' for artillery I can deal with [in general, ignore it and fight
somewhere else; that may be what the artillery player thinks is desired
also ]. The move-and-shoot capability, though, is such a huge change
that I expect there is a totally different dynamic.

Jon makes a good point on the dogs and point ratios but it bears further
examination. To get a 5-point win, you need to double your opponent's
score while killing at least 400. So I would take fewer scythed chariots
in my Seleucid, were I running it, than I used to (O for the glory days
when 6 scythed chariots were all you needed in the army!). However,
realise that you can afford to give away 200 points 'for free' if you are
planning to get 5-point wins, so having such guaranteed loss units is not
as bad as it might look. I still think that the scythe boys are very much
worth their place. War dogs are more expensive, and I'm not sure about
their return on investment; they also exist as part of an army that should
have zero difficulty in dealing with opposing LI screens in most cases.

[joncleaves]

<< The move-and-shoot capability, though, is such a huge change
that I expect there is a totally different dynamic.>>

Ewan is right, but I want to make sure everyone gets what he said. Spanish guns
still cannot shoot in the same bound they move. But they can shoot the bound
after, unlike bombards. This doesn't seem like a huge change, but when you
realize no one marching up shoots that bound anyway, it essentially means that
if you position them well, you can indeed get off a bound 2 shot.

Or time their bound three shot to coincide with your Irr A LMI charge... ;)

<<Jon makes a good point on the dogs and point ratios but it bears further
examination. To get a 5-point win, you need to double your opponent's
score while killing at least 400. So I would take fewer scythed chariots
in my Seleucid,>>

What makes war dogs worse here is they are 45 points vice 24. This is because
of their ability to move through terrain and the armed driver, among other
things. But points lost are points lost.

<< were I running it, than I used to (O for the glory days
when 6 scythed chariots were all you needed in the army!). >>

I am very pleased to have helped preside over the death of that crap...lol ;)

<< However,
realise that you can afford to give away 200 points 'for free' if you are
planning to get 5-point wins, so having such guaranteed loss units is not
as bad as it might look. >>

Ineed. Frank Gilson used his as well as I have seen last year. It certainly
'can' work. But it also, to me, has to do with playing style, the rest of the
army and how exactly one is planning on getting the 5-point win.

<< War dogs are more expensive, and I'm not sure about
their return on investment; they also exist as part of an army that should
have zero difficulty in dealing with opposing LI screens in most cases.>>

Exactly. But to have an expendable in brush causing a enemy mounted waver can
be quite fun....


J