Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Dave Smith]

Jon;

Gaming with Mike on Saturday, a rather odd flank attack occurred.
It appeared to be legit, but it didn't pass my 'smell' test---I felt
it was gamey and played to a quirky rule nuance', perhaps. (BTW,
I'm not suggesting Mike was the Velveeta-man, we had a very
enjoyable game, otherwise). I uploaded a scanned diagram----sorry
don't have powerpoint of the situation, but I will summarize below
as well.

Mike had an Indian MC unit in line parked behind a routing Indian MI
longbow unit. I had routed the Indian LB unit the turn previously,
and followed up with a unit of SHC and a legionary unit. Mike's MC
unit passed it's waver. Next turn he approaches by turning his cav
unit around (180 degrees- he had countered the turn before this, so
the MC unit was facing away from me) and advancing 40p. At charge
declaration he wanted to charge my 'following-up SHC' in the flank,
through a 121p. wide gap, which meant that he would have to drop 2
elements of his MC unit behind each other to pass through the gap
basically ending up in a 1 x 4 column. I also had a 4 element unit
of auxilia sitting in the brush 121p. away from the flank of the SHC.

We the allwoed the move and his MC hit my SHC in flank, but he took
some withering support shooting from my auxilia unit, and ending up
doing no damage. However, my feeling at the time was that this was
a real goofy manuver (not impuning Mike at all, since he was
following his understanding of this rule). Can you help clarify.
Please refer to the flank attack jpeg in the files section (rules
questions folder):

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/WarriorRules/files/Rules%
20Questions/

Thanks,

Dave

[Dave Smith]

Jon;

Do I need to rephrase this question, or did I miss your
clarification on this? I did get an 'unofficial' opinion from a
list member, but wanted to make sure I understood the official FHE
position. TIA.

Dave


--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "David Smith" <davidsmith@k...>
wrote:
>
> Jon;
>
> Gaming with Mike on Saturday, a rather odd flank attack occurred.
> It appeared to be legit, but it didn't pass my 'smell' test---I
felt
> it was gamey and played to a quirky rule nuance', perhaps. (BTW,
> I'm not suggesting Mike was the Velveeta-man, we had a very
> enjoyable game, otherwise). I uploaded a scanned diagram----sorry
> don't have powerpoint of the situation, but I will summarize below
> as well.
>
> Mike had an Indian MC unit in line parked behind a routing Indian
MI
> longbow unit. I had routed the Indian LB unit the turn
previously,
> and followed up with a unit of SHC and a legionary unit. Mike's
MC
> unit passed it's waver. Next turn he approaches by turning his
cav
> unit around (180 degrees- he had countered the turn before this,
so
> the MC unit was facing away from me) and advancing 40p. At charge
> declaration he wanted to charge my 'following-up SHC' in the
flank,
> through a 121p. wide gap, which meant that he would have to drop 2
> elements of his MC unit behind each other to pass through the gap
> basically ending up in a 1 x 4 column. I also had a 4 element
unit
> of auxilia sitting in the brush 121p. away from the flank of the
SHC.
>
> We the allwoed the move and his MC hit my SHC in flank, but he
took
> some withering support shooting from my auxilia unit, and ending
up
> doing no damage. However, my feeling at the time was that this
was
> a real goofy manuver (not impuning Mike at all, since he was
> following his understanding of this rule). Can you help clarify.
> Please refer to the flank attack jpeg in the files section (rules
> questions folder):
>
> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/WarriorRules/files/Rules%
> 20Questions/
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave

[joncleaves]

Mike had an Indian MC unit in line parked behind a routing Indian MI
longbow unit. I had routed the Indian LB unit the turn previously,
and followed up with a unit of SHC and a legionary unit. Mike's MC
unit passed it's waver. Next turn he approaches by turning his cav
unit around (180 degrees- he had countered the turn before this, so
the MC unit was facing away from me) and advancing 40p. At charge
declaration he wanted to charge my 'following-up SHC' in the flank,
through a 121p. wide gap, which meant that he would have to drop 2
elements of his MC unit behind each other to pass through the gap
basically ending up in a 1 x 4 column. I also had a 4 element unit
of auxilia sitting in the brush 121p. away from the flank of the SHC.

We the allwoed the move and his MC hit my SHC in flank, but he took
some withering support shooting from my auxilia unit, and ending up
doing no damage. However, my feeling at the time was that this was
a real goofy manuver (not impuning Mike at all, since he was
following his understanding of this rule). Can you help clarify.
Please refer to the flank attack jpeg in the files section (rules
questions folder)>>

That's an illegal flank charge.

There are two kinds of flank charge. (In the revised text, they will be
separated out as case I and caseII).

The first kind is when you start behind the flank of the target. No real
restrictions there - in you go.

The second kind, where you don't start behind the flank but can reach the flank
through your charge move, has many more restrictions. This is one of those and
is illegal because the unit charging will not be able to fit into the space
between the target and the auxilia. Note that this 'fit check' happens after an
pivoting and lining up and that it MUST include pivoting and lining up. The
operative rule is 6.165 with clarifications.

Jon

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Mike,

Hmm. . . I was right after all! :)

kelly

JonCleaves@... wrote:
Mike had an Indian MC unit in line parked behind a routing Indian MI
longbow unit. I had routed the Indian LB unit the turn previously,
and followed up with a unit of SHC and a legionary unit. Mike's MC
unit passed it's waver. Next turn he approaches by turning his cav
unit around (180 degrees- he had countered the turn before this, so
the MC unit was facing away from me) and advancing 40p. At charge
declaration he wanted to charge my 'following-up SHC' in the flank,
through a 121p. wide gap, which meant that he would have to drop 2
elements of his MC unit behind each other to pass through the gap
basically ending up in a 1 x 4 column. I also had a 4 element unit
of auxilia sitting in the brush 121p. away from the flank of the SHC.

We the allwoed the move and his MC hit my SHC in flank, but he took
some withering support shooting from my auxilia unit, and ending up
doing no damage. However, my feeling at the time was that this was
a real goofy manuver (not impuning Mike at all, since he was
following his understanding of this rule). Can you help clarify.
Please refer to the flank attack jpeg in the files section (rules
questions folder)>>

That's an illegal flank charge.

There are two kinds of flank charge. (In the revised text, they will be
separated out as case I and caseII).

The first kind is when you start behind the flank of the target. No real
restrictions there - in you go.

The second kind, where you don't start behind the flank but can reach the flank
through your charge move, has many more restrictions. This is one of those and
is illegal because the unit charging will not be able to fit into the space
between the target and the auxilia. Note that this 'fit check' happens after an
pivoting and lining up and that it MUST include pivoting and lining up. The
operative rule is 6.165 with clarifications.

Jon



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