Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Greg Regets]

WARNING: POSSIBLE SILLY QUESTION

Good Morning Jon/Scott ...

Some of the members of our group had a question about
interpenetration and terrain, as per 6.52, Paragraph 4. I have
uploaded a file named 'Interpenetration Question', to assist with
this question.

**********

6.52 (paragraph 4)

Elements that cannot move clear when interpenetrating, replaced in
combat, or bursting and breaking-through, are inserted beyond the
first body met. If that is not possible due to terrain or another
body being present, the interpenetration may not take place.

**********

The Orange and Blue units are inside your garden variety gully. The
Orange unit is snuggled up against the front edge of the gully, and
the blue unit is snuggled up against the back.

The two light infantry units, Green and Yellow are trying to
interpenetrate in a move away from the enemy (the enemy is at the
bottom of the image). Neither unit has room to move clear.

**********

Questions

Does the far edge of the gully constitute terrain, as per 6.52,
making this interpenetration illegal? (I know ... this a stupid
question ... sorry)

Is there any difference between the interpenetration attempted with
with Green through Orange (where there is space between the back of
the unit and the gully edge), and Yellow through blue (where there is
no space)? Are either/both of these legal, illegal, as per 6.52.

What about rout moves that interpenetrate? It is clear by rule 6.522
that routers can end up mixed in place with the unit they are trying
to interpenetrate, but what happens after that? Do these units still
have to obey 6.52 in the subsequent bound? (another silly question,
sorry).

**********

Again, sorry if these questions are very basic, but we had a few
points of view on this, and just couldn't get together on the answers
without some help.

Thanks ... g

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 3/23/2004 10:17:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,
greg.regets@... writes:

> Questions
>
> Does the far edge of the gully constitute terrain, as per 6.52,
> making this interpenetration illegal? (I know ... this a stupid
> question ... sorry)>>


It is terrain, certainly, but it isn't terrain that prevents the interpen of the
LI.


> Is there any difference between the interpenetration attempted with
> with Green through Orange (where there is space between the back of
> the unit and the gully edge), and Yellow through blue (where there is
> no space)? >>

Nope.

<<Are either/both of these legal, illegal, as per 6.52.>>

Legal


> What about rout moves that interpenetrate? It is clear by rule 6.522
> that routers can end up mixed in place with the unit they are trying
> to interpenetrate, but what happens after that? Do these units still
> have to obey 6.52 in the subsequent bound? (another silly
> question,
> sorry).>>

You are only 'mixed in place' if caught in htht and need to resolve it - once
resolved or if not caught at all, complete the move.

A lot of apologies.... what was the 'other' point of view?

[Greg Regets]

Well ... the dominant point of view turned out to be completely wrong
by your ruling, and I would suggest this might be a consideration for
rewording. :-)

Question: Why doesn't it prevent the interpenetration?

**********

6.52 (paragraph 4)

Elements that cannot move clear when interpenetrating, replaced in
combat, or bursting and breaking-through, are inserted beyond the
first body met. If that is not possible due to terrain or another
body being present, the interpenetration may not take place.

**********

Please note that it only says "due to terrain or another body being
PRESENT" ... without any implication that this terrain must be
something that is impassable to the interpenetrating unit. Reading
the rule literally ... etc ...

What you might want to do is insert the rule "impassable" before the
word "terrain" if that is your intention.

Thanks ... g :-)




--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 3/23/2004 10:17:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,
greg.regets@g... writes:
>
> > Questions
> >
> > Does the far edge of the gully constitute terrain, as per 6.52,
> > making this interpenetration illegal? (I know ... this a stupid
> > question ... sorry)>>
>
>
> It is terrain, certainly, but it isn't terrain that prevents the
interpen of the LI.
>
>
> > Is there any difference between the interpenetration attempted
with
> > with Green through Orange (where there is space between the back
of
> > the unit and the gully edge), and Yellow through blue (where
there is
> > no space)? >>
>
> Nope.
>
> <<Are either/both of these legal, illegal, as per 6.52.>>
>
> Legal
>
>
> > What about rout moves that interpenetrate? It is clear by rule
6.522
> > that routers can end up mixed in place with the unit they are
trying
> > to interpenetrate, but what happens after that? Do these units
still
> > have to obey 6.52 in the subsequent bound? (another silly
> > question,
> > sorry).>>
>
> You are only 'mixed in place' if caught in htht and need to resolve
it - once resolved or if not caught at all, complete the move.
>
> A lot of apologies.... what was the 'other' point of view?

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 3/23/2004 10:49:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
greg.regets@... writes:

> Question: Why doesn't it prevent the interpenetration?>>

Why would it? LI can move into/through a gully.

Nothing about that terrain is preventing the LI from moving through the LTS.
Now if that terrain were impassable - like a major water feature, or woods and
the interpenetrator was a chariot...then the terrain would prevent the
interpenetration.

[Greg Regets]

Like I said, you might want to add some text to 6.52.

**********

6.52 (paragraph 4)
Elements that cannot move clear when interpenetrating, replaced in
combat, or bursting and breaking-through, are inserted beyond the
first body met. If that is not possible due to terrain or another
body being present, the interpenetration may not take place.

**********

Adding the word "impassable" before the word "terrain", might help
with that.

Consider how players might be confused. You cannot pass TROOPS beyond
in an involuntary, even if they are passable to you, so it is not a
reach to come to the conclusion that you cannot pass terrain beyond,
even if it is passable.

See what I mean?

Thanks again ... g



--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 3/23/2004 10:49:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
greg.regets@g... writes:
>
> > Question: Why doesn't it prevent the interpenetration?>>
>
> Why would it? LI can move into/through a gully.
>
> Nothing about that terrain is preventing the LI from moving through
the LTS. Now if that terrain were impassable - like a major water
feature, or woods and the interpenetrator was a chariot...then the
terrain would prevent the interpenetration.

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 3/23/2004 11:42:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,
greg.regets@... writes:

> Consider how players might be confused. You cannot pass TROOPS beyond
> in an involuntary, even if they are passable to you, so it is not a
> reach to come to the conclusion that you cannot pass
> terrain beyond,
> even if it is passable.
>
> See what I mean?>>


Nope.