Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 3/22/2004 06:40:22 Central Standard Time, nidboy@...
writes:
Jon,
GW includes a rather
extensive "Hobby" section in their color plates of armies. This
includes how to paint figures, how to base them appealingly and how
to model terrain. I think it would convince a gamer to purchase the
rules if there were something that covered this in your upcoming
reprinting of the Warrior core rules. >>

Yes, Ambrose, we are quite aware of the marketing advantage GW's deep pockets
give them...lol We can only afford 4 pages of color at best, at least based
on our original estimate. We *think* pictures of armies in action is the
right answer for these as any kind of 'painting guide' that really did the job
would take all our color to do.

I am looking into doing the painting guide in Warrior Battles instead.

It wouldn't be hard for some of the people who are painting
now (Probably most of us) to take a few pictures of the process
involved in our painting and to write a brief description of what is
going on.>>

I accept!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Also - have you guys talked to Angus McBride yet about doing the cover art
for your new books? I wonder how much he charges? At anyrate, you'd sell
_alot_ more product...

With all the great stuff you've got in the pipepline:

Quick-Play Rules
Campaign Rules
Fantasy Rules
Seige Rules
Skirmish Rules

Those, along with the fact that you have the ability to play with any
miniatures, on practicaly any scale - historical or fantasy - and that
Warrior is such a robust, detailed and involved set of rules, FHE could
take the wargamer niche by storm. If you keep a generally subdued and
uniform appearance on all the books - perfect bound, glossy paper, a couple
pages of color photo, with quality cover art, preferably by the same artist -
I imagine you'd amass a large customer base rather quickly.

Angus McBride covers would be cool. (c8=


Cheers,

Corey


On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 12:37:50PM -0000, wacoddignton wrote:
> Jon,
> While I was talking to Tim about painting up some 10mm Romans last
> night we had a bit of an epiphany. GW includes a rather
> extensive "Hobby" section in their color plates of armies. This
> includes how to paint figures, how to base them appealingly and how
> to model terrain. I think it would convince a gamer to purchase the
> rules if there were something that covered this in your upcoming
> reprinting of the Warrior core rules. I know that the thing that I
> found most intimidating about jumping into an "army" based game (That
> is a game that dealt with one army facing another) was the painting
> required. At least with GW games there is the chance that you only
> have to paint 40 to 50 figures. Not all that rough when you think
> about it. Warrior armies (Even Fast Warrior armies) can have upwards
> of 100 to 300 figures. This is quite a task to undertake if you are
> 16 or so. If there were a section in the color plates about how to
> paint and more importantly a few articles on how to paint quickly,
> gluing 6 or 8 similar figures to a stick and working down the line
> and the like as an example, I think that you will help with that
> intimidation and attract some of the GW crowd. You may even help
> bring in fresh people who don't springboard from GW into Warrior or
> ancients in general. I've read a few other rules systems and they
> don't seem to be using this "Whole Hobby" approach that GW uses so
> well. It wouldn't be hard for some of the people who are painting
> now (Probably most of us) to take a few pictures of the process
> involved in our painting and to write a brief description of what is
> going on. You then could take the better ones and include them in
> the color section or even the black and white section of the new
> book.
>
> Another Item:
> On of the major things that Warrior has going for it when going head
> to head with a game like a GW product (Besides the fact that the
> rules are more robust and interesting) is the actual knowledge that
> one gets from playing, at the very least by contamination. One
> cannot help but learn a lot of historical facts about the armies that
> we use. This could be used as an advertising scheme. Children can
> say "But mom, Warrior is educational! Look it's not a waste of
> time! I'm learning all sorts of really neat facts about the Romans
> and how and who they fought! I can even use this in a report for
> school!" Product sold!
>
> Just some thoughts Jon.
>
> Ambrose
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Jon,
While I was talking to Tim about painting up some 10mm Romans last
night we had a bit of an epiphany. GW includes a rather
extensive "Hobby" section in their color plates of armies. This
includes how to paint figures, how to base them appealingly and how
to model terrain. I think it would convince a gamer to purchase the
rules if there were something that covered this in your upcoming
reprinting of the Warrior core rules. I know that the thing that I
found most intimidating about jumping into an "army" based game (That
is a game that dealt with one army facing another) was the painting
required. At least with GW games there is the chance that you only
have to paint 40 to 50 figures. Not all that rough when you think
about it. Warrior armies (Even Fast Warrior armies) can have upwards
of 100 to 300 figures. This is quite a task to undertake if you are
16 or so. If there were a section in the color plates about how to
paint and more importantly a few articles on how to paint quickly,
gluing 6 or 8 similar figures to a stick and working down the line
and the like as an example, I think that you will help with that
intimidation and attract some of the GW crowd. You may even help
bring in fresh people who don't springboard from GW into Warrior or
ancients in general. I've read a few other rules systems and they
don't seem to be using this "Whole Hobby" approach that GW uses so
well. It wouldn't be hard for some of the people who are painting
now (Probably most of us) to take a few pictures of the process
involved in our painting and to write a brief description of what is
going on. You then could take the better ones and include them in
the color section or even the black and white section of the new
book.

Another Item:
On of the major things that Warrior has going for it when going head
to head with a game like a GW product (Besides the fact that the
rules are more robust and interesting) is the actual knowledge that
one gets from playing, at the very least by contamination. One
cannot help but learn a lot of historical facts about the armies that
we use. This could be used as an advertising scheme. Children can
say "But mom, Warrior is educational! Look it's not a waste of
time! I'm learning all sorts of really neat facts about the Romans
and how and who they fought! I can even use this in a report for
school!" Product sold!

Just some thoughts Jon.

Ambrose

On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 03:56:02PM -0500, cncbump@... wrote:
> In a message dated 3/22/2004 1:20:00 PM Central Standard Time,
> JonCleaves@... writes:
> More than we've got...lol
>
> he may not charge so much to allow you to use some of his art work already
> published. I like the art work you currently have, but Mcbride does do some
> nice work. May at least be worth firing him a note. Who knows, he might be a
> philanthrapist with a soft spot for Ancients gamers.
> Chris
>

Here hear! It's worth a shot.

Osprey and I.C.E. have used his work - maybe FHE could also.

( And I agree that the current artwork certainly is nothing to complain
about. )

Regardless - whether it's McBride or someone else, it seems like it would
be a worthy effort to publish all the new FHE books with a mostly uniform
appearance; i.e., same basic external and internal layout, same cover artist,
same binding and same paper type. This would make the whole "set" ( once all
those new releases on the pipeline have been published ) instantly more
appealing from a visual/aesthetic perspective, and first impression is hugely
important.

If McBride is out of the question, browse all the artists that Osprey use
for their artwork - there's bound to be an artist or three who would make
a good fit for FHE's products.

Though I can only imagine that you guys have already thought of all this!
Easier said than done, and all that.


Cheers,

Corey

On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 04:32:27PM -0500, JonCleaves@... wrote:
> In a message dated 3/22/2004 8:23:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, corey_s@...
writes:
>
> > Though I can only imagine that you guys have already
> > thought of all this!>>
>
>
>
> You can check out a rough example of our new layout type in the file WB new
> proto in the files section. The artwork there isn't finalized, but the
>layout style is what we will be suing.
>

Very nice!

Simple, not distracting, pleasing to the eye, readable font - well done!

[Chris Bump]

In a message dated 3/22/2004 1:20:00 PM Central Standard Time,
JonCleaves@... writes:
More than we've got...lol
he may not charge so much to allow you to use some of his art work already
published. I like the art work you currently have, but Mcbride does do some
nice work. May at least be worth firing him a note. Who knows, he might be a
philanthrapist with a soft spot for Ancients gamers.
Chris


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 3/22/2004 16:54:37 Central Standard Time,
mwbard@... writes:
The other option is to use a photograph of miniatures. I could create an 8
deep 8 wide column of hoplites, and then just use photoediting to extend it
to the left and right as wide as required. Thus the cover could be a solid
wall of hoplites attacking the viewer.>>


For what is this recommendation? Is it to me for some product?

If so, we already have cover art for Warrior. other products will use
historical images. If someone wants to offer to draw/paint us one, we certainly
are
looking for original historical art for our covers, but to date calls for that
have come up zero....


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 3/22/2004 17:11:51 Central Standard Time,
mwbard@... writes:
Though (tracing back), I am thinking of making a web article on painting a
hoplite and that could be either linked from the FHE website, or have a copy
placed there.
Now *that* we would love. If you'd give it over to us, we'd use it in
Warrior Battles and give you credit for it and a free copy.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 3/22/2004 5:44:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, corey_s@...
writes:

> Also - have you guys talked to Angus McBride yet about
> doing the cover art
> for your new books? I wonder how much he charges?>>

More than we've got...lol

For Warrior, we bought that cover art.

for the other games, we are looking into all affordable solutions for cover art.

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 3/22/2004 8:23:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, corey_s@...
writes:

> Though I can only imagine that you guys have already
> thought of all this!>>

:)

You can check out a rough example of our new layout type in the file WB new
proto in the files section. The artwork there isn't finalized, but the layout
style is what we will be suing.

[Mike Bard]

The other option is to use a photograph of miniatures. I could create an 8
deep 8 wide column of hoplites, and then just use photoediting to extend it
to the left and right as wide as required. Thus the cover could be a solid
wall of hoplites attacking the viewer.

Michael Bard
That Greek Hoplite Guy

[Mike Bard]

Sorry, I got confused about the thread and thought that it was a cover
picture of some kind (the McBride paintings discussion).

Nevermind.

Though (tracing back), I am thinking of making a web article on painting a
hoplite and that could be either linked from the FHE website, or have a copy
placed there.

Michael Bard
That Greek Hoplite Guy

> In a message dated 3/22/2004 16:54:37 Central Standard Time,
> mwbard@... writes:
> The other option is to use a photograph of miniatures. I could create an
8
> deep 8 wide column of hoplites, and then just use photoediting to extend
it
> to the left and right as wide as required. Thus the cover could be a
solid
> wall of hoplites attacking the viewer.>>
>
>
> For what is this recommendation? Is it to me for some product?
>
> If so, we already have cover art for Warrior. other products will use
> historical images. If someone wants to offer to draw/paint us one, we
certainly are
> looking for original historical art for our covers, but to date calls for
that
> have come up zero....