Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

I was playing around last night with the Nike list to see just how
small it would be if everyone uparmored and upped their morale yet
remain viable (not sure this is possible). My prime concern is
having manuver units of foot that will not be halted every bound. Of
all the units with cost potential, the Varangians and Kontaratoi are
obviously going to soak up some cash:

2x 12E RgB/D EHI/HI/MI HTW/JLS/sh @ 284 each

I have the second rank as HI, as my understanding is you must upgrade
to HI before EHI, and I take it that only half the HI may do so.

These units are run 3 deep and 4 wide. Yes I know the rear rank
won't fight, but if I run the unit 2 deep it spans way too much
frontage for people to charge in echelon over and over. While I like
the initial hit or two for EHI with HTW, I don't like the third hit
factors since there is an even chance I will be fighting as HI
with "other infantry +JLS" by then. This unit will be ground up
quicker, IOW IMO in 2 ranks simply because of the accessible
frontage, the fact that they will not get a charge off but take it at
the halt, and they need nearby supporting shock troops who have room
to charge in. At 568 worth of foot, they will stand and take it but
nothing else. I also toyed with the idea of P, but again no one will
charge mounted into them anyway I suspect. Of course if I could run
front rank HTW/JLS, 2nd and 3rd as P....

The Varangians as 12E RgA EHI/HI 2HCW/D/sh @ 490 points

Wow! I run these as two deep, since they will only be skirmished out
of the game. What would charge into these guys? Not EL and nothing
short of SHK x2 I'd suspect. Seems from the numbers you'd have to
hit them halted, no problem, but you'd also need Lance, HTW, or 2
handers to make any hope of a dent. Nothing with a missile (other
than artillery or fire) or javelin will make a difference, and I'd
still hessitate to hit them with SHK L/sh since the support shot with
D will hurt enough coming in. I see the SHK will disorder them if
they can do twice as many, but otherwise these guys are just some
much overpriced impassible terrain :)

Notice I didn't put any of them on horses, since I think I'd just
forcemarch them out front like a giant fleshy roadblock. Hey for a
total of 1058 points I will cover 18E of frontage (gaps for
expanding). This leaves me enough points to buy some HC L/sh and
downgrade to RgD MC ;^D

Of course this exercise is in good fun, but I would like to hear from
the experts (or those who play experts on TV) on how and why someone
would run such beast units? I have some ideas, but they seem rather
underutilized given the points value and my theories of use. I would
like to surprize someone with such a monster if I can figure out how
it would work. Thanks in advance.
Wanax

I do not have the list in front of me, but there seems to be a few errors in
your assumptions.

First and foremost, out of 24 E available, only 8 are allowed to be HTW.
That leaves 16 E with 2/3 LTS (or P) and 1/3 B – you have to have the 1/3 to
2/3 ratio.

What I do is 1X 6E HTW, JLS and 3X 6E at 2/3 LTS / P w/ JLS + 1/3 B. I will
arm the front rank w/ D if it seems to fit the opponent (assuming I know my
opponent) I do not use the EHI option due to fatigue and I do keep my B with
no upgrades. The HTW I upgrade to Reg B HI (I believe I have to have the
Reg B).

I don’t mind having to stand and receive missile fire with them, because I
use them to screen the SHC advance and that is my Coup de Gras

The only Cavalry that I upgrade to EHC is the General’s unit – the rest I
use as HC L B as best I can.

Varangians I fight as Irreg B LHI 2HCW, JLS


Scott A McCoppin, AIA
mccoppinarchitecture, pa
704.560.4154
architecture@...

-----Original Message-----
From: spocksleftball [mailto:spocksleftball@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 1:01 PM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WarriorRules] Kontaratoi and Varangians

I was playing around last night with the Nike list to see just how
small it would be if everyone uparmored and upped their morale yet
remain viable (not sure this is possible). My prime concern is
having manuver units of foot that will not be halted every bound. Of
all the units with cost potential, the Varangians and Kontaratoi are
obviously going to soak up some cash:

2x 12E RgB/D EHI/HI/MI HTW/JLS/sh @ 284 each

I have the second rank as HI, as my understanding is you must upgrade
to HI before EHI, and I take it that only half the HI may do so.

These units are run 3 deep and 4 wide. Yes I know the rear rank
won't fight, but if I run the unit 2 deep it spans way too much
frontage for people to charge in echelon over and over. While I like
the initial hit or two for EHI with HTW, I don't like the third hit
factors since there is an even chance I will be fighting as HI
with "other infantry +JLS" by then. This unit will be ground up
quicker, IOW IMO in 2 ranks simply because of the accessible
frontage, the fact that they will not get a charge off but take it at
the halt, and they need nearby supporting shock troops who have room
to charge in. At 568 worth of foot, they will stand and take it but
nothing else. I also toyed with the idea of P, but again no one will
charge mounted into them anyway I suspect. Of course if I could run
front rank HTW/JLS, 2nd and 3rd as P....

The Varangians as 12E RgA EHI/HI 2HCW/D/sh @ 490 points

Wow! I run these as two deep, since they will only be skirmished out
of the game. What would charge into these guys? Not EL and nothing
short of SHK x2 I'd suspect. Seems from the numbers you'd have to
hit them halted, no problem, but you'd also need Lance, HTW, or 2
handers to make any hope of a dent. Nothing with a missile (other
than artillery or fire) or javelin will make a difference, and I'd
still hessitate to hit them with SHK L/sh since the support shot with
D will hurt enough coming in. I see the SHK will disorder them if
they can do twice as many, but otherwise these guys are just some
much overpriced impassible terrain :)

Notice I didn't put any of them on horses, since I think I'd just
forcemarch them out front like a giant fleshy roadblock. Hey for a
total of 1058 points I will cover 18E of frontage (gaps for
expanding). This leaves me enough points to buy some HC L/sh and
downgrade to RgD MC ;^D

Of course this exercise is in good fun, but I would like to hear from
the experts (or those who play experts on TV) on how and why someone
would run such beast units? I have some ideas, but they seem rather
underutilized given the points value and my theories of use. I would
like to surprize someone with such a monster if I can figure out how
it would work. Thanks in advance.
Wanax




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--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Scott & Tracie McCoppin"
<sctrac@p...> wrote:
> I do not have the list in front of me, but there seems to be a few
errors in
> your assumptions.
>
> First and foremost, out of 24 E available, only 8 are allowed to be
HTW.
> That leaves 16 E with 2/3 LTS (or P) and 1/3 B – you have to have
the 1/3 to
> 2/3 ratio.

According to the list I can replace any LTS with HTW. I just forgot
to note the backrank as B, sorry.

>
> What I do is 1X 6E HTW, JLS and 3X 6E at 2/3 LTS / P w/ JLS + 1/3
B. I will
> arm the front rank w/ D if it seems to fit the opponent (assuming I
know my
> opponent) I do not use the EHI option due to fatigue and I do keep
my B with
> no upgrades. The HTW I upgrade to Reg B HI (I believe I have to
have the
> Reg B).

If forced marched, they cover half the board for 2 CPF. :)

>
> I don't mind having to stand and receive missile fire with them,
because I
> use them to screen the SHC advance and that is my Coup de Gras


Excellent idea.

>
> The only Cavalry that I upgrade to EHC is the General's unit – the
rest I
> use as HC L B as best I can.

I wouldn't upgrade any to EHC (except at SoA and Derekon where they
skirmish).

>
> Varangians I fight as Irreg B LHI 2HCW, JLS

Yes, I'd run them that way too, but my post is just to see if these
animals will hunt. :)

Wanax

How come the Russ don't get any of these :(

Mike

>
> The Varangians as 12E RgA EHI/HI 2HCW/D/sh @ 490 points
>
> Wow! I run these as two deep, since they will only be skirmished
out
> of the game. What would charge into these guys? Not EL and
nothing
> short of SHK x2 I'd suspect. Seems from the numbers you'd have to
> hit them halted, no problem, but you'd also need Lance, HTW, or 2
> handers to make any hope of a dent. Nothing with a missile (other
> than artillery or fire) or javelin will make a difference, and I'd
> still hessitate to hit them with SHK L/sh since the support shot
with
> D will hurt enough coming in. I see the SHK will disorder them if
> they can do twice as many, but otherwise these guys are just some
> much overpriced impassible terrain :)

The only ones that can replace the LTS w/ HTW is the Reg B – and you can
only upgrade 1/3 of the total to Reg B.

Anyway, the LHI Varangians will hunt in the woods (or any other disordering
terrain) quite well – and will do great in the open as long as there aren’t
any pesky Knights running around looking for lance decorations. However
with the large amount of close order, I like having them to root any hiding
enemy troops out into the open.

If you want a small, professional, tough as nails, army with enough balance
to face down about any army, this is my personal favorite. I also like to
throw in 2X 2E Norman Milites with Irr A front rank to give me some Cav vs
Cav / HK punch – it serves as a good foil to the preponderance of Regular
Cav. Also throw in some Irr Horse archers. That way you have a good
balanced army for about any situation.

Good luck.

Scott A McCoppin, AIA
mccoppinarchitecture, pa
704.560.4154
architecture@...

-----Original Message-----
From: spocksleftball [mailto:spocksleftball@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 3:48 PM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: Kontaratoi and Varangians

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Scott & Tracie McCoppin"
<sctrac@p...> wrote:
> I do not have the list in front of me, but there seems to be a few
errors in
> your assumptions.
>
> First and foremost, out of 24 E available, only 8 are allowed to be
HTW.
> That leaves 16 E with 2/3 LTS (or P) and 1/3 B – you have to have
the 1/3 to
> 2/3 ratio.

According to the list I can replace any LTS with HTW. I just forgot
to note the backrank as B, sorry.

>
> What I do is 1X 6E HTW, JLS and 3X 6E at 2/3 LTS / P w/ JLS + 1/3
B. I will
> arm the front rank w/ D if it seems to fit the opponent (assuming I
know my
> opponent) I do not use the EHI option due to fatigue and I do keep
my B with
> no upgrades. The HTW I upgrade to Reg B HI (I believe I have to
have the
> Reg B).

If forced marched, they cover half the board for 2 CPF. :)

>
> I don't mind having to stand and receive missile fire with them,
because I
> use them to screen the SHC advance and that is my Coup de Gras


Excellent idea.

>
> The only Cavalry that I upgrade to EHC is the General's unit – the
rest I
> use as HC L B as best I can.

I wouldn't upgrade any to EHC (except at SoA and Derekon where they
skirmish).

>
> Varangians I fight as Irreg B LHI 2HCW, JLS

Yes, I'd run them that way too, but my post is just to see if these
animals will hunt. :)

Wanax




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