Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[John Murphy]

While on the subject of shieldless SHK, what about the other
mainstay of the HYWE being the longbowmen? Are the stakes and 2HCW
cost-effective?

My guess...

(Take with grain of salt: I have only played about a half-dozen
games with these)

The stakes are only really 1 point per _element_ (i.e. 2 pts per 1E
front occupied by 2E in 2 ranks) over an entire unit so we are not
talking about a lot of points here. Anything that can remove the
waver test requirements, which is really the only huge gaping
weakness of these guys, for only 1 point per element has to be worth
it.

The problem is, I almost never wind up using them. It is difficult
to spend the entire bound putting them down since you can not do
this while in skirmish. So you need to pop out of skirmish the prior
bound, before seeing the enemy move his mounted troops, and then
forego any movement or prep shooting to get them down. Not easy to
do.

Regarding choppers, they are a bit more points (2 per element if
only half the elements - more is definately a waste as far as I can
tell) but not as difficult to use.

That said, I rearely use the choppers I take unless I am doing
something very wrong. But they serve as a deterrent more than an
offensive weapon.

The only real use is for fighting in the woods with the longbows.
Otherwise they function as totally passive (no special tactics
required) means of keeping some opponents from charging in against
the longbows.

I have never thought of this way, but it might even mean you can
avoid going into skirmish altogether except against some nastier
foot types.

I'd be interested in hearing what the pundits have to say on this
one.

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "J. Murphy" <jjmurphy@s...>
wrote:

My regular opponant doesn't go into skirmish much at all with these
guys. He takes the stakes, as I run IrrgA cav types, and he gets to
reach out to 120 with full effect. Behind the stakes these guys are
very safe unless hit by fast moving armored foot (LHI for example) or
are disordered by some means.

The problem with stakes, and what I attempt to do is threaten in
order to get the opponant to drop stakes in a dangerous place, as
this has the effect of forcing him to defend the things...see they
can't seem to pull them back out of the ground to use again :)

Once pinned with their stakes, they loose their mobility and I gain
initiative. Of course, against a better player, the stakes will only
go down once need arises and can't be countered otherwise. Novices
usually march up and drop stakes in bound 1.

Choppers....well I like HTH, so I'd buy at least the front rank.
This is what I belive Ambrose does. Not that he has to use them much
since I insist on trying to charge over the stakes through full
shooting like the ignorant savage I am :)

Seriously, it is IMO a package deal with these guys.

Wanax

[joncleaves]

As another player of English longbow, which are components of my two longtime
favorite medieval armies (HYE and Spanish), her's some thoughts.

I have tried just about every combination of stakes, shields, armor and 2HCW.
My current method is to just take front rank sh and skip the 2HCW, LHI and
stakes.

Here's why:

- Stakes. I have found there are plenty of other ways to avoid the waver than
stakes. They, as others have noted, force a lack of mobility when placed and
once placed. On a personal note, the english LB in the spanish list can't have
them so I also avoid them so I can go back and forth between lists with the same
longbow tactics. Also, a top player will not just come after LB with one troop
type - stakes will not help you win v elephants or shock foot and you will often
face the choice between them and conventional mounted threats.

- 2HCW. I have found that all these do is make me think I can beat people in
hth that I have no business fighting...lol My basic rule is to fight no one in
hth with my LB unless they are LI or disordered - in neither case do I need 2HCW
if I have shields.

- Armor. HTW, 2HCW, 2HCT, LB and L do not differentiate between H and M armor.
I will not win v P or LTS no matter what armor I have. I don't need armor to
win against non-fanatic JLS-armed troops. Yes, it makes a difference with
respect to B, but I have found it is better to handle massed B-armed archers
other ways than to buy H armor.

- Shields. I buy these for the front rank. I don't count shieldless in hth and
I can put shields up while maneuevering against LI/LMI archer screens until the
SHK or more LB let's me put him on the defensive in the initial clash.

For now, my LB are LMI, 1/2 Sh.

J