Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 11/19/2003 15:55:55 Central Standard Time,
ewan.mcnay@... writes:
But, they're significantly more expensive than reg LI - assuming small
units, which they're going to be.
Moreover, they have essentially no function except for killing opposing
LI (and delaying in terrain) - there's little else that they can fight
or even affect.

Reg LI, especially if missile-armed, though, can avoid enemy more
easily/effectively, and offer some effect against a range of troops;
they're also significantly cheaper in small units and manouvre better.

My preference is probably obvious . I do agree with Jon that S, Sh is
an optimum weapon, though.
Wow. Not something you hear every day.... :)

And Ewan, to return the favor, I agree with your comments and preferences
above as well.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ewan McNay]

Irr LI JLS, Sh can kill any other LI - if they can catch them.

But, they're significantly more expensive than reg LI - assuming small
units, which they're going to be.
Moreover, they have essentially no function except for killing opposing
LI (and delaying in terrain) - there's little else that they can fight
or even affect.

Reg LI, especially if missile-armed, though, can avoid enemy more
easily/effectively, and offer some effect against a range of troops;
they're also significantly cheaper in small units and manouvre better.

My preference is probably obvious . I do agree with Jon that S, Sh is
an optimum weapon, though.

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Ewan <ewan.mcnay@y...> wrote:
> Irr LI JLS, Sh can kill any other LI - if they can catch them.
>
> But, they're significantly more expensive than reg LI - assuming
small
> units, which they're going to be.
> Moreover, they have essentially no function except for killing
opposing
> LI (and delaying in terrain) - there's little else that they can
fight
> or even affect.
>
> Reg LI, especially if missile-armed, though, can avoid enemy more
> easily/effectively, and offer some effect against a range of troops;
> they're also significantly cheaper in small units and manouvre
better.
>
> My preference is probably obvious . I do agree with Jon that S,
Sh is
> an optimum weapon, though.

I also find irreg li jls, sh just great for fighting non jls armed
light cav. If nothing else taking the impetuos charge option with the
li often surprises the opponent. The ability to chase off enemy
lights might not matter much from a direct killing the enemy point of
view but it plays a big part in allowing you to contol when and where
the big fights happen. With all this said i still prefer missile
armed lights in general, preferably backed up by one or two units of
jls, sh guys to chase off the other guy if required

Martin.

My favourite LI, especially in 15mm is IrrD LI,B in units of 16-20.
Sometimes it only needs one shot to ruin the day of some much more
expensive and waver test causing cavalry

Adrian Williams

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "martin williams"
<martymagnificent@y...> wrote:
> --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Ewan <ewan.mcnay@y...> wrote:
> > Irr LI JLS, Sh can kill any other LI - if they can catch them.
> >
> > But, they're significantly more expensive than reg LI - assuming
> small
> > units, which they're going to be.
> > Moreover, they have essentially no function except for killing
> opposing
> > LI (and delaying in terrain) - there's little else that they can
> fight
> > or even affect.
> >
> > Reg LI, especially if missile-armed, though, can avoid enemy more
> > easily/effectively, and offer some effect against a range of
troops;
> > they're also significantly cheaper in small units and manouvre
> better.
> >
> > My preference is probably obvious . I do agree with Jon that
S,
> Sh is
> > an optimum weapon, though.
>
> I also find irreg li jls, sh just great for fighting non jls armed
> light cav. If nothing else taking the impetuos charge option with
the
> li often surprises the opponent. The ability to chase off enemy
> lights might not matter much from a direct killing the enemy point
of
> view but it plays a big part in allowing you to contol when and
where
> the big fights happen. With all this said i still prefer missile
> armed lights in general, preferably backed up by one or two units
of
> jls, sh guys to chase off the other guy if required
>
> Martin.

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Hmmm... To be honest, I think regular lights are the only way to go. And beyond
that, Regular LC seems to work the best at getting rid of nasty Light infantry
when combined with good Lmi. It really is a question of tactics where this comes
in. Personal preference aside, I've seen light infantry skillfully employed in
some very ingenious ways and I will therefore leave this where it belongs, in
the dept. of personal tactics. After all, the troops are only as good as the
general employing them in given circumstances! ;)

kelly

martin williams <martymagnificent@...> wrote:
--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Ewan <ewan.mcnay@y...> wrote:
> Irr LI JLS, Sh can kill any other LI - if they can catch them.
>
> But, they're significantly more expensive than reg LI - assuming
small
> units, which they're going to be.
> Moreover, they have essentially no function except for killing
opposing
> LI (and delaying in terrain) - there's little else that they can
fight
> or even affect.
>
> Reg LI, especially if missile-armed, though, can avoid enemy more
> easily/effectively, and offer some effect against a range of troops;
> they're also significantly cheaper in small units and manouvre
better.
>
> My preference is probably obvious . I do agree with Jon that S,
Sh is
> an optimum weapon, though.

I also find irreg li jls, sh just great for fighting non jls armed
light cav. If nothing else taking the impetuos charge option with the
li often surprises the opponent. The ability to chase off enemy
lights might not matter much from a direct killing the enemy point of
view but it plays a big part in allowing you to contol when and where
the big fights happen. With all this said i still prefer missile
armed lights in general, preferably backed up by one or two units of
jls, sh guys to chase off the other guy if required

Martin.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Greg Preston]

I have a liking for the 2E units of Reg D shieldless missile armed LI.
They are sooooo cheap. (Never mind the quality- feel the width). Correctly
staggered or with terrain assistance, they can block up an entire flank
for an entire game. They are great for punching through little holes in the
line, triggering Irr A charges, getting flanks, and boosting unit numbers
in a strike command.

Greg Preston

>My favourite LI, especially in 15mm is IrrD LI,B in units of 16-20.
>
>Sometimes it only needs one shot to ruin the day of some much more
>
>expensive and waver test causing cavalry
>
>
>
>Adrian Williams
>
>
>
>--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "martin williams"
>
><martymagnificent@y...> wrote:
>
>> --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Ewan <ewan.mcnay@y...> wrote:
>
>> > Irr LI JLS, Sh can kill any other LI - if they can catch them.
>
>> >
>
>> > But, they're significantly more expensive than reg LI - assuming
>
>> small
>
>> > units, which they're going to be.
>
>> > Moreover, they have essentially no function except for killing
>
>> opposing
>
>> > LI (and delaying in terrain) - there's little else that they can
>
>> fight
>
>> > or even affect.
>
>> >
>
>> > Reg LI, especially if missile-armed, though, can avoid enemy more
>
>> > easily/effectively, and offer some effect against a range of
>
>troops;
>
>> > they're also significantly cheaper in small units and manouvre
>
>> better.
>
>> >
>
>> > My preference is probably obvious . I do agree with Jon that
>
>S,
>
>> Sh is
>
>> > an optimum weapon, though.
>
>>
>
>> I also find irreg li jls, sh just great for fighting non jls armed
>
>> light cav. If nothing else taking the impetuos charge option with
>
>the
>
>> li often surprises the opponent. The ability to chase off enemy
>
>> lights might not matter much from a direct killing the enemy point
>
>of
>
>> view but it plays a big part in allowing you to contol when and
>
>where
>
>> the big fights happen. With all this said i still prefer missile
>
>> armed lights in general, preferably backed up by one or two units
>
>of
>
>> jls, sh guys to chase off the other guy if required
>
>>
>
>> Martin.
>
>
>
>
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[Bill Chriss]

My personal favorite LI are Reg "B" or "C" Aenianian javelinmen with
JLS,S,Sh. You can find these as Reg C's in my Later Greek Allied
Hoplite list published in the Sept/Oct 1997 Spearpoint, pp. 10-12.
The troop type is based on one possible interpretation of an
Aenianian coin depicted in Sekunda and McBride, "The Ancient Greeks",
Volume 7 of the "Elite" Series by Osprey, p. 53. The authors believe
the sling depicted to be a "throwing thong." I disagree, and the
official NASAMW Greek hoplite list (if I recall correctly) agreed
with me at least to the extent of allowing the sling as one optional
interpretation of the evidence. In the latest iteration of my list, I
give the option to upgrade the Aenianians to "B" as with many of the
other Thessalian lights because they were part of the Thessalian
confederacy and fought under Jason of Pherae and with Epaminondas and
Pelopidas in their successful Peloponnesian campagins of 371-362. The
justification for treating Thessalian javelinmen, in general, as Reg
B or Irr B (player's option) is pretty well stated in my Spearpoint
article. Xenophon calls the Thessalians under Jason of Pherae
essentially "the greatest psiloi in the world." Especially with the
sling (you can only buy 12), but even without, shielded Reg or
Irreg "B" Thessalian javelinmen/targeteers are, in my view, elite.
Viewing them this way, allowing Thesssalian LC to fight a rank and a
half with JLS, and similarly characterizing Thessalian peltasts as
Reg "B" is essential to capturing the performance of this army on the
battlefield, as many previously published lists have recognized. Even
so, the army is still only barely competitive in 15mm tournament
play, as those of you who have fought against my boys can attest.

The Greek Kid, Wild Bill

[Greg Regets]

To my way of thinking, the best thing to have is a mixture of several
different types of light infantry. As such, I agree with all points
stated above, depending on what task is job-one for the unit in
question.

I have also found occasional use for a single ten figure regular
unit. Placed in a one-rank line in front of missile vulnerable
troops, it has some useful advantages;

a) it fits into a grey-area on the casualty charts

b) if you leave a single element gap between said missile vulnerable
troops, the light unit is able to use two formation changes (one per
flank) to contract out of the way

c) the able player will still force shooting primarily at the light
unit in column between the missile vulnerable units

d) scenario 'b' can be done in reverse, starting in column, moving
forward 40p and expanding on each flank

e) single rank depth allows units behind, a much greater chance of
getting within charge reach, should a player determine that charging
through his lights is of benefit.


I wouldn't suggest this as a base tactic for light infantry, but
there are scenarios where it works quite well, such as in combination
with two units of high impact Irregular LMI, or with missile
vulnerable mounted.

Excellent Discussion ... g