Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

Speaking of how the Warrior mailing list stands up to the DBM list, here is
a comparison of ancients rules mailing lists found on Yahoo. I have ranked
them in order of most members. I didn't include non-rules specific lists,
like the Ancmed list. Where there is more than one mailing list for a set of
rules (like as for WAB), I include only the single most popular.

-Wab...1,235
-DBM...1,141
-DBA...702
-Anc/Med Warfare...448 (Terry Gore's rules)*
-Armati...348*
-Frank Chadwick's Ancients...322*
-Warrior...285
-Might of Arms...215
-Classical Hack...207
-Tactica...153*
-Day of Battle...90

*These rules are about to be published or recieve NEW versions very shortly.
The Ancient/Med. Warfare by Terry Gore are about to be published by the
Foundry; the popularity of these rules will greatly increase due to this. In
fact Terry Gore's rules seem to have risen in popularity in the past year
twice fold without the upcoming Foundry version. Warrior has been struggling
ever since its release!!! :(






***
Kurtus Brown
warlords@...
jab@...
Known as sheol73 on Instant Messenger.
Known as i_sheol on Yahoo.
Co-Founder and President of the Table-Top Warlords
Wargaming Club. Come see our website at:
http://members.toast.net/jab
Also founder of Para-Search, paranormal research society.
Parasearch Website: http://members.toast.net/jab/parasearch/
***

Oh, and btw, I am not judging Warrior simply on the merrits of mailing list
memberships...so don't bash me. Just a comparison of lists as food for
thought. Make of it what you will.

--Kurt

----- Original Message -----
From: Kurtus Brown <warlords@...>
To: Warrior ML <WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 1:25 PM
Subject: [WarriorRules] Mailing List Comparison


> Speaking of how the Warrior mailing list stands up to the DBM list, here
is
> a comparison of ancients rules mailing lists found on Yahoo. I have ranked
> them in order of most members. I didn't include non-rules specific lists,
> like the Ancmed list. Where there is more than one mailing list for a set
of
> rules (like as for WAB), I include only the single most popular.
>
> -Wab...1,235
> -DBM...1,141
> -DBA...702
> -Anc/Med Warfare...448 (Terry Gore's rules)*
> -Armati...348*
> -Frank Chadwick's Ancients...322*
> -Warrior...285
> -Might of Arms...215
> -Classical Hack...207
> -Tactica...153*
> -Day of Battle...90
>
> *These rules are about to be published or recieve NEW versions very
shortly.
> The Ancient/Med. Warfare by Terry Gore are about to be published by the
> Foundry; the popularity of these rules will greatly increase due to this.
In
> fact Terry Gore's rules seem to have risen in popularity in the past year
> twice fold without the upcoming Foundry version. Warrior has been
struggling
> ever since its release!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ***
> Kurtus Brown
> warlords@...
> jab@...
> Known as sheol73 on Instant Messenger.
> Known as i_sheol on Yahoo.
> Co-Founder and President of the Table-Top Warlords
> Wargaming Club. Come see our website at:
> http://members.toast.net/jab
> Also founder of Para-Search, paranormal research society.
> Parasearch Website: http://members.toast.net/jab/parasearch/
> ***
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 12/7/2002 12:39:14 Central Standard Time,
warlords@... writes:

> In
> fact Terry Gore's rules seem to have risen in popularity in the past year
> twice fold without the upcoming Foundry version.

They have not just been out a year - Terry has been slowly building on his
rules for several now.

Warrior has been struggling > ever since its release!!! :(

Define struggling...lol. 9 months we've been out, sold half the inventory
already, have four printed products on the market and four more in
simultaneous development. Name the other ancients rules company that is
doing this?

Cup is very much half full.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jon, I am speaking about the past year only. OK...I am off three months. I
know anc/med has been out longer. But its growth has really picked up in
just the last 12 months. Warrior has not seen this rate of growth in the 9
months of its growth.


since its release. ----- Original Message -----
From: <JonCleaves@...>
To: <WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Mailing List Comparison


> In a message dated 12/7/2002 12:39:14 Central Standard Time,
> warlords@... writes:
>
> > In
> > fact Terry Gore's rules seem to have risen in popularity in the past
year
> > twice fold without the upcoming Foundry version.
>
> They have not just been out a year - Terry has been slowly building on his
> rules for several now.
>
> Warrior has been struggling > ever since its release!!!
>
> Define struggling...lol. 9 months we've been out, sold half the inventory
> already, have four printed products on the market and four more in
> simultaneous development. Name the other ancients rules company that is
> doing this?
>
> Cup is very much half full.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

OK, maybe I don't know much about the actual *sales* of rules in relation to
others. BUT...I can say that more people seem to be playing *other* rules,
even if they perhaps bought Warrior. At least thats what it seems.

There is a lot of competition out there regarding rules.

You brought up the comparison to DBM. I am saying..."hey...there is more
than just DBM doing well".


> Define struggling...lol. 9 months we've been out, sold half the inventory
> already, have four printed products on the market and four more in
> simultaneous development. Name the other ancients rules company that is
> doing this?

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 12/7/2002 18:09:24 Central Standard Time,
warlords@... writes:

> Jon, I am speaking about the past year only. OK...I am off three months. I
> know anc/med has been out longer. But its growth has really picked up in
> just the last 12 months. Warrior has not seen this rate of growth in the 9
> months of its growth.
>

Measured how? In 9 months we have matched DBM in terms of players in
national tourneys and have every intent of passing them next year. AW/MW
still has less than both us and DBM.

And this is all *very* much apples and oranges. We haven't had a reprint,
where Terry is at least on his third version, with his army lists all out.
Let's see where we are at when all the Warrior army list books are done and
we have our first scenario book on the street and Campaign Warrior is in
player's hands. Heck, you can't even play a Warrior Roman or Greek list yet.

Like comparing a 2 year old to an adult.

And if I were going to worry about a competitor's game system , which I don't
because I know how this is all going to play out , I'd be a lot more
worried about WAB than I would ever be about AW/MW - WAB players are
currently much more driven recruiters than either ours or Terry's.....

Also, I am FAR more interested in making the Ancients HOBBY better than I am
any single game system including my own. Which is why, for one example, our
scenario books and rules supplements (CamWar, Siege Warrior, Fleet
Warrior...) will have sections on how to use them with other rules sets,
including DBX, AW and WAB. You'll note in my upcoming Spearpoint article
that I don't just make rules for playing Warrior in 30mm, I show how to use
WAB-based figures and how to apply Warrior 30mm to DBX...
And I would expect others to do the same for Warrior, but I am not holding my
breath...lol

I'll get with the other horsemen and work up the full Warrior system vision
and post it here so you can see where we are going and why it is so different
from the vision of other ancients companies.

Jon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

>
> There is a lot of competition out there regarding rules.
>
>

Indeed. And we recognize Warrior is the PhD of ancients. Fast Warrior (and
Swordclash and Fantasy Warrior and 'Intro Warrior') will mitigate this
somewhat, but we aren't really looking to capture the 'simple games' crowd in
its entirety, even if we thought we could. We will probably never have the
same player base as WAB or DBA, any more than we will have more players than
those who play checkers or crazy eights. And that is ok. The owners of
the computer game Barbarossa to Berlin don't expect to compete with the Sims.
Apples and oranges.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 12/8/02 9:08:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
JonCleaves@... writes:

<< Subj: Re: [WarriorRules] Mailing List Comparison
Date: 12/8/02 9:08:11 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: JonCleaves@...
Reply-to: <A HREF="mailto:WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com">
WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com</A>
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com



>
> There is a lot of competition out there regarding rules.
>
>

Indeed. And we recognize Warrior is the PhD of ancients. Fast Warrior (and
Swordclash and Fantasy Warrior and 'Intro Warrior') will mitigate this
somewhat, but we aren't really looking to capture the 'simple games' crowd
in
its entirety, even if we thought we could. We will probably never have the
same player base as WAB or DBA, any more than we will have more players than
those who play checkers or crazy eights. And that is ok. The owners of
the computer game Barbarossa to Berlin don't expect to compete with the
Sims.
Apples and oranges.
>>


"Swordclash"? "Intro Warrior"? Warrior skirmish? Warrior that even the OFM
can play without help?
Q'est-ce qu c'est?

Just think where the market share would be if you had lists out for
Macedonians, Romans and Carthagos! (Scott, I am really loading up on those
awesome Newline Carthaginian 4-horse chariots. Don't let me down!)
Not that you care about market share, oh no......
Speaking of spitting in the face of market share, check out the "Good looks
or gameplay" thread on ancmed. Jon, you should take BJ aside and give him
niceness lessons. More than one person, myself included, have sworn to never
touch Piquet because of this.

John the OFM

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 12/8/2002 17:18:28 Central Standard Time,
johncarroll453@... writes:

> "Swordclash"? "Intro Warrior"? Warrior skirmish? Warrior that even the
> OFM
> can play without help?
> Q'est-ce qu c'est?
>


Swordclash is (will be) our Warrior skirmish game. Intro Warrior is the
working title of a 'beginner's level' version of the rules designed to work
with the Fast Warrior lists to help new players into the system. I don't
like the title Intro Warrior as I want players who want to stay at that level
and never move to 'full' Warrior to feel comfortable doing so.

> Just think where the market share would be if you had lists out for
> Macedonians, Romans and Carthagos!


Indeed.

>
> Speaking of spitting in the face of market share, check out the "Good looks
>
> or gameplay" thread on ancmed. Jon, you should take BJ aside and give him
> niceness lessons.

Wow. Anyone who needs niceness lessons from me must be quite a %&*#$%@, huh?

More than one person, myself included, have sworn to never >
> touch Piquet because of this.
>

You aren't missing anything. But remind me to be nicer anyway...lol


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 12/8/02 4:14:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
JonCleaves@... writes:

<<
Wow. Anyone who needs niceness lessons from me must be quite a %&*#$%@, huh?
>>


Yes.

John the OFM

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 12/8/2002 18:58:23 Central Standard Time,
johncarroll453@... writes:

> <<
> Wow. Anyone who needs niceness lessons from me must be quite a %&*#$%@,
> huh?
> >>
>
>
> Yes.
>
>

I was, of course, being sarcastic. :)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

How about "Warrior Recruit?" or something similar.

I'd also suggest "Basic Warrior" but something about that doesn't sound
right.

Todd


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]