Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Dave Smith]

Scott;

I am contemplating entering the 15mm Mini Open at H-con this year,
since I will be arriving in Lancaster on Wednesday. I'm uncertain
as to army composition, other than keeping the list to 1200 points.
Are the minimums altered at all, is 2 generals typical, things like
that. Also, looking at entering the Open on Saturday. Thanks in
advance for the guidance.

Oh, by the way. The FW tourney looked great. I am going to be
passing the baton on future WAB events here in KC to one of the
other guys so that I can start playing in these shindigs, instead of
answering inane WAB questions.

Good job to you and Jon!

Dave

[Greg Regets]

1200 points in 15mm on a 6x4 table? We used to play 1250 on that size table all
the time.

I would go with an army that featured a reasonable chunck of quality LC, with a
smallish (not too small) shock component. Two stand regular LC units armed with
a combat weapon are very formitable. Less mobile enemies are usually forced
into a defensive posture - which will help you coordinate your shock element to
it's maximum effect.

Terrain can be problematic. If you don't get any in the central sector, you
might not have enough troops to stretch from covering terrain in one flank, to
covering terrain in the other, AND actually hold the covering terrain. You can
of course put terrain on one flank and your rear-zone center, but this will
bore the hell out of you over several games.

One of the things that helped me quite a bit at that point value, was to take
my 1600 point list and scale it down, rather than building a seperate 1250
point army. This was done both by eliminating units, and cutting unit size down
to the smallest possible effective number. As an added bonus, I found that I
actually preferred the smaller units, and still play that way to this day.

Lastly, (and this is just my opinion), I think two generals is a must. If you
have one general and the enemy divines your orders, you will be fighting an
uphill battle to be sure.

All this, is just my opinion ... so have at! ~wink~

G

[scott holder]

I am contemplating entering the 15mm Mini Open at H-con this year,
since I will be arriving in Lancaster on Wednesday. I'm uncertain
as to army composition, other than keeping the list to 1200 points.
Are the minimums altered at all, is 2 generals typical, things like
that.

>Everything stays the same. Number of general's really depends on the army you
run. If I were showing up with Aztecs, I'd have only one general. Whenever
I've run Burgundian Ordonnance at 1200 pts (I've done it in both scales), I only
run 1 general. However, if I run Galatians, I do what Ed Bernhart told me to
do, have three commands, one on table, the other two flank marching, one on each
flank respectively.

>My advice is like it is for everybody, run an army you *know*, and by *know* I
mean one you've played enough to be comfortable with. That way, you can pretty
much run the thing in your sleep. Regardless of what you're shooting for
entering a tourney, there is nothing more frustrating than learning how to use
an army while playing in a tourney. If you haven't played much, don't take
something complex to run like any Reg cav army (Byzantines and their ilk) or LIR
or Seleucids. And don't take something so expensive that in 15mm it takes up no
table space *unless* you know the army inside and out. Back when I lived in
Northern VA, I could run Burgundian Ordonnance in 15mm at 1200 points because I
actually played the army a lot so could usually work around its limitations at
that size. Actually, I'm not sure I'd do that here since the table size will be
"normal", ie 6x4. Last year on a 4x4 table, there were plenty of medieval
armies in play in the Open. In the Mini, it was more what the "first tier"
players were used to playing, aka Todd Kaeser running Aztecs but then if you
look at the standings, everybody else was running some type of cav army.

Also, looking at entering the Open on Saturday. Thanks in
advance for the guidance.

>You could make your life simple and just run a 1600 point version of what
you're playing in the Mini. Makes transporting troops, even 15mm, easier.
Don't bring EIR, Marian or any other pre-Empire Roman army, you'll just get beat
up the whole weekend.

>If you really want loads of "expert* opinions, list what armies you could field
and we can nitpick em to death.

scott

[Dave Smith]

"Holder, Scott" wrote:

<snipped a whole bunch of good stuff>

If you really want loads of "expert* opinions, list what armies you
could field and we can nitpick em to death.


***Thanks a lot for the insight. It _has_ cleared up some variables
for me. My army choices extend to: Italian Condotta, or morphable
late medieval, Marian Roman, Thracian, Galatian/Gallic in 15mm, and
Early Crusader in 25mm.

I will probably go ahead and choose one of these and build it out to
1600 points, and use the same one for the mini open and open.

Thanks for disecting the above armies for me. I will try and get in
as many games as possible between now and H-con.

Dave

[Dave Smith]

***Oh, I could also do a Teutonic army (early), as well.

D

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "David Smith" <davidsmith@k...>
wrote:
> "Holder, Scott" wrote:
>
> <snipped a whole bunch of good stuff>
>
> If you really want loads of "expert* opinions, list what armies
you
> could field and we can nitpick em to death.
>
>
> ***Thanks a lot for the insight. It _has_ cleared up some
variables
> for me. My army choices extend to: Italian Condotta, or morphable
> late medieval, Marian Roman, Thracian, Galatian/Gallic in 15mm,
and
> Early Crusader in 25mm.
>
> I will probably go ahead and choose one of these and build it out
to
> 1600 points, and use the same one for the mini open and open.
>
> Thanks for disecting the above armies for me. I will try and get
in
> as many games as possible between now and H-con.
>
> Dave

[scott holder]

Teutonic: The Early version of this is interesting. I mean it's got all these
great knights backed up by loads of the trashiest foot in the game. That would
appeal to the Chris Damours of the world. If you take the Middle Period (I'm
discussing the yet unpublished FeudWar version), you can go with Lithuanian
Allies and basically have an army of knights and excellent LC. I'm still not so
sure either option is terribly easy to run. The former requires thought about
how to use the trash Prussian foot without suddenly losing your army to waver
checks. The latter requires decent coordination between the skirmish-shootemup
troops and the knights, something that requires some regular playing to master.

Italian Condotta: Tough list to run, falls into the "need to know it well"
category and few people have taken the time to learn it. Sean Scott would be
the most notable exception to that. He makes it work but he also plays around
it's limitations (wtf those are, most likely a dearth of LC). If you go generic
medieval, look to 100 Yrs War English/WOTR assuming you have enough longbowmen
or perhaps some of the late Medieval lists from Holy Warrior.

Marian: Unless you plan to run this pike-heavy, in which case you'd be better
off bringing a pike-trash army in the first place, leave these guys at home to
fight Sulla. Everybody elses infantry will shoot your or beat you up, elephants
will hose you, knights will barely break a sweat running you over, unless you
buy the pikes and elephants in which case we're back to running Seleucids:):)

Thracian: The only person I've ever seen run this army even half successfully
was Don Carter and he would buy the required LMI, hide em in brush for the
entire game, and try to win the game with an army of HC and LC. He won about
half the time, would get hammered the other half. Keep them at home.

Galatian/Gallic: Everyone will tell ya "play it as Gauls" and they're right
because of the flexibility the loose order troops give you. Other plusses are
the Irr A roll dice win/lose game nature of the list. Galatians (use the
Huckleberry and Clark list) can be sooooo suceptible to terrain. Last year, I
ran em in the Mini, 25mm, 6x5 table using Ed Bernhart's idea of putting all the
close order Warriors under the CinC, sit on the table, then flank march one
command on both flanks. Said flank consisted of 2E HC Sub and two 2E HC units
and three scythed chariots. I won one game but definitely had Sean and Eric
sweating in the two games I lost to them. Again, good terrain placement hoses
you with Galatians.

E Crusader: Love this list but still am figuring out the nuances of the thing.
The Irr A and HK options are nice and the close order foot can be suprisingly
tough if bought in big units and supported. Look at the Irr E B-armed infantry.
Jon and I were gonna max out on these at Doubles at CW but played in 15mm
instead. This list can damn near consist of nothing but half Irr A cav units
and somebody with a missile weapon. Sean won the campaign theme with it so it's
got something going for it but I'm pretty sure he bought it differently.

scott

[Dave Smith]

***Scott;

Man, you've been a huge help here. Since I haven't played much
Warrior, it will take some time to shake the rust off of me. If you
had a clean slate and could field your choice, what would that be
(assuming you are me, of course. ) TIA!

Dave

"Holder, Scott" <Scott.Holder@f...> wrote:
Teutonic: The Early version of this is interesting. I mean it's got
all these great knights backed up by loads of the trashiest foot in
the game. That would appeal to the Chris Damours of the world. If
you take the Middle Period (I'm discussing the yet unpublished
FeudWar version), you can go with Lithuanian Allies and basically
have an army of knights and excellent LC. I'm still not so sure
either option is terribly easy to run. The former requires thought
about how to use the trash Prussian foot without suddenly losing
your army to waver checks. The latter requires decent coordination
between the skirmish-shootemup troops and the knights, something
that requires some regular playing to master.
>
> Italian Condotta: Tough list to run, falls into the "need to know
it well" category and few people have taken the time to learn it.
Sean Scott would be the most notable exception to that. He makes it
work but he also plays around it's limitations (wtf those are, most
likely a dearth of LC). If you go generic medieval, look to 100 Yrs
War English/WOTR assuming you have enough longbowmen or perhaps some
of the late Medieval lists from Holy Warrior.
>
> Marian: Unless you plan to run this pike-heavy, in which case
you'd be better off bringing a pike-trash army in the first place,
leave these guys at home to fight Sulla. Everybody elses infantry
will shoot your or beat you up, elephants will hose you, knights
will barely break a sweat running you over, unless you buy the pikes
and elephants in which case we're back to running Seleucids:)
>
> Thracian: The only person I've ever seen run this army even half
successfully was Don Carter and he would buy the required LMI, hide
em in brush for the entire game, and try to win the game with an
army of HC and LC. He won about half the time, would get hammered
the other half. Keep them at home.
>
> Galatian/Gallic: Everyone will tell ya "play it as Gauls" and
they're right because of the flexibility the loose order troops give
you. Other plusses are the Irr A roll dice win/lose game nature of
the list. Galatians (use the Huckleberry and Clark list) can be
sooooo suceptible to terrain. Last year, I ran em in the Mini,
25mm, 6x5 table using Ed Bernhart's idea of putting all the close
order Warriors under the CinC, sit on the table, then flank march
one command on both flanks. Said flank consisted of 2E HC Sub and
two 2E HC units and three scythed chariots. I won one game but
definitely had Sean and Eric sweating in the two games I lost to
them. Again, good terrain placement hoses you with Galatians.
>
> E Crusader: Love this list but still am figuring out the nuances
of the thing. The Irr A and HK options are nice and the close order
foot can be suprisingly tough if bought in big units and supported.
Look at the Irr E B-armed infantry. Jon and I were gonna max out on
these at Doubles at CW but played in 15mm instead. This list can
damn near consist of nothing but half Irr A cav units and somebody
with a missile weapon. Sean won the campaign theme with it so it's
got something going for it but I'm pretty sure he bought it
differently.
>
> scott

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Something with lots of regular foot and light cavalry with Irregular Kniggits!
Kel

David Smith <davidsmith@...> wrote:***Scott;

Man, you've been a huge help here. Since I haven't played much
Warrior, it will take some time to shake the rust off of me. If you
had a clean slate and could field your choice, what would that be
(assuming you are me, of course. ) TIA!

Dave

"Holder, Scott" <Scott.Holder@f...> wrote:
Teutonic: The Early version of this is interesting. I mean it's got
all these great knights backed up by loads of the trashiest foot in
the game. That would appeal to the Chris Damours of the world. If
you take the Middle Period (I'm discussing the yet unpublished
FeudWar version), you can go with Lithuanian Allies and basically
have an army of knights and excellent LC. I'm still not so sure
either option is terribly easy to run. The former requires thought
about how to use the trash Prussian foot without suddenly losing
your army to waver checks. The latter requires decent coordination
between the skirmish-shootemup troops and the knights, something
that requires some regular playing to master.
>
> Italian Condotta: Tough list to run, falls into the "need to know
it well" category and few people have taken the time to learn it.
Sean Scott would be the most notable exception to that. He makes it
work but he also plays around it's limitations (wtf those are, most
likely a dearth of LC). If you go generic medieval, look to 100 Yrs
War English/WOTR assuming you have enough longbowmen or perhaps some
of the late Medieval lists from Holy Warrior.
>
> Marian: Unless you plan to run this pike-heavy, in which case
you'd be better off bringing a pike-trash army in the first place,
leave these guys at home to fight Sulla. Everybody elses infantry
will shoot your or beat you up, elephants will hose you, knights
will barely break a sweat running you over, unless you buy the pikes
and elephants in which case we're back to running Seleucids:)
>
> Thracian: The only person I've ever seen run this army even half
successfully was Don Carter and he would buy the required LMI, hide
em in brush for the entire game, and try to win the game with an
army of HC and LC. He won about half the time, would get hammered
the other half. Keep them at home.
>
> Galatian/Gallic: Everyone will tell ya "play it as Gauls" and
they're right because of the flexibility the loose order troops give
you. Other plusses are the Irr A roll dice win/lose game nature of
the list. Galatians (use the Huckleberry and Clark list) can be
sooooo suceptible to terrain. Last year, I ran em in the Mini,
25mm, 6x5 table using Ed Bernhart's idea of putting all the close
order Warriors under the CinC, sit on the table, then flank march
one command on both flanks. Said flank consisted of 2E HC Sub and
two 2E HC units and three scythed chariots. I won one game but
definitely had Sean and Eric sweating in the two games I lost to
them. Again, good terrain placement hoses you with Galatians.
>
> E Crusader: Love this list but still am figuring out the nuances
of the thing. The Irr A and HK options are nice and the close order
foot can be suprisingly tough if bought in big units and supported.
Look at the Irr E B-armed infantry. Jon and I were gonna max out on
these at Doubles at CW but played in 15mm instead. This list can
damn near consist of nothing but half Irr A cav units and somebody
with a missile weapon. Sean won the campaign theme with it so it's
got something going for it but I'm pretty sure he bought it
differently.
>
> scott


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