Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

Greg Regets · Imperator Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 2988

The "moog fuss" has nothing to do with combat ability or the ability to diffuse
such. Any player worth his salt, can find a way to handle something that
marches two segments.

My only question with moogs is; Where is the evidence that they had shields
that we keep hearing so much about? I have been looking for it for months, and
Mike Forbes, whom in my opinion knows more about military history than anyone I
know personally, insists I will not find it.

We keep hearing that this evidence exists ... would someone mind telling a dumb-
ass Texan where he can find it?????????

Greg

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>
>
> <tt>
> In a message dated 7/16/2003 9:04:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jjmurphy@...
writes: 
> 
> > Interesting that Moogs raised such a big fuss and nobody 
> > seems to have 
> > noticed these Janissary guys.>> 
> 
> I agree. 1. The 'moog fuss' is way overdone. 2. Janissaries are only
good, as you said, with something to chase away screen, otherwise a 2E unit of
LI makes
them worthless. 
> </tt>
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Greg Regets · Imperator Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 2988

Hey Jon ... lol ... all I asked was if there was some historical stuff I was
missing! I'm certainly not going to rehash this issue, especially not now,
after I ordered 25mm guys to modify into moogs.

Thanks ... G

P.S. Just for the record, I was NOT part of the stirrup discussion ... lol

> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> In a message dated 7/16/2003 10:21:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, gar@...
writes: 
> 
> > would someone mind telling a dumb- 
> > ass Texan where he can find it?????????>> 
> 
> Lord save me from DATs and one-man fusses....lol 
> 
> I'll let Scott handle this, of course, but I would ask this... 
> 
> If Scott were to post here the source or sources he used, would this fuss
die? Or
would there be a running discourse on how you disagreed with his
interpretation?
What if he has only one source and chose to use that to give the front rank
shields to
produce the 'effect' we feel Almughavars should have in our game? Would that be
enough? 
> 
> I am sure Scott will get to this, but not at all sure that there is anything
he could or
would say that would make you let this go. The last time we went through this
with
stirrups, he did an excellent job of ending the discussion, but at great cost
to his
personal time and to what end? All of us at FHE are perfectly comfortable with
the
reasoning and chouces behind the Almughavar troop type, so what are we doing
all this
for? One player's personal (dis-)satisfaction? 
> 
> Well, I'll tell you what - one player does matter to us, and we have shown
what lengths we
are willing to go to for one guy - lengths that no other miniatures game
company will go
to - that I know. So whether you agree or or not with Scott's answer, please
keep
all this in mind and think on it before we beat the hell out of this (four)
horse
again. 
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> Jon 
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scott holder · Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 6:31 pm Post subject: RE: Moog Fuss

I don't have my exact sources in front of me. There is one or two written
references, skimpy at best, that the western almughavars, as opposed to the
Catalan Company almughavars, might have used shields. Again, can't quote you
chapter and verse at the moment. Because of that, we extrapolated the Catalan
Company. Moreover, as we state in the list notes, shieldless LMI in WARRIOR
would not perform up to the reputation moogs had historically.

FWIW, I also coordinated this research with another rules set, Medieval Warfare,
and their primary list guru had reached the same conclusions we did and had read
the same couple of references to shields. That's why we went 0-1/2. It makes
their flanks severely vulnerable.

-----Original Message-----
From: gar@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:22 AM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WarriorRules] Moog Fuss

The "moog fuss" has nothing to do with combat ability or the ability to
diffuse
such. Any player worth his salt, can find a way to handle something that
marches two segments.

My only question with moogs is; Where is the evidence that they had shields
that we keep hearing so much about? I have been looking for it for months, and

Mike Forbes, whom in my opinion knows more about military history than anyone
I
know personally, insists I will not find it.

We keep hearing that this evidence exists ... would someone mind telling a
dumb-
ass Texan where he can find it?????????

Greg

> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> In a message dated 7/16/2003 9:04:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jjmurphy@...
writes: 
> 
> > Interesting that Moogs raised such a big fuss and nobody 
> > seems to have 
> > noticed these Janissary guys.>> 
> 
> I agree. 1. The 'moog fuss' is way overdone. 2. Janissaries are only
good, as you said, with something to chase away screen, otherwise a 2E unit of

LI makes
them worthless. 
> </tt>
>
> 
>
> 
>
> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
> <td align=center>Yahoo! Groups
Sponsor</td>
> </tr>
> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
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joncleaves · Moderator Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 16447

In a message dated 7/16/2003 10:21:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, gar@...
writes:

> would someone mind telling a dumb-
> ass Texan where he can find it?????????>>

Lord save me from DATs and one-man fusses....lol

I'll let Scott handle this, of course, but I would ask this...

If Scott were to post here the source or sources he used, would this fuss die?
Or would there be a running discourse on how you disagreed with his
interpretation? What if he has only one source and chose to use that to give
the front rank shields to produce the 'effect' we feel Almughavars should have
in our game? Would that be enough?

I am sure Scott will get to this, but not at all sure that there is anything he
could or would say that would make you let this go. The last time we went
through this with stirrups, he did an excellent job of ending the discussion,
but at great cost to his personal time and to what end? All of us at FHE are
perfectly comfortable with the reasoning and chouces behind the Almughavar troop
type, so what are we doing all this for? One player's personal
(dis-)satisfaction?

Well, I'll tell you what - one player does matter to us, and we have shown what
lengths we are willing to go to for one guy - lengths that no other miniatures
game company will go to - that I know. So whether you agree or or not with
Scott's answer, please keep all this in mind and think on it before we beat the
hell out of this (four) horse again.

Thanks.

Jon

joncleaves · Moderator Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 16447

In a message dated 7/16/2003 2:04:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, gar@...
writes:

> P.S. Just for the record, I was NOT part of the stirrup
> discussion ... lol>>

Indeed you were not. But the two horrible experiences produce the same trauma
in me...lol

No harm, no foul, man.
J

Recruit Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 167

WHOA! I didn't say you wouldn't find it. I said that I
hadn't seen any, and that no one has quoted (you know,
author, title, etc) any.

--- gar@... wrote:
> The "moog fuss" has nothing to do with combat
> ability or the ability to diffuse
> such. Any player worth his salt, can find a way to
> handle something that
> marches two segments.
>
> My only question with moogs is; Where is the
> evidence that they had shields
> that we keep hearing so much about? I have been
> looking for it for months, and
> Mike Forbes, whom in my opinion knows more about
> military history than anyone I
> know personally, insists I will not find it.
>
> We keep hearing that this evidence exists ... would
> someone mind telling a dumb-
> ass Texan where he can find it?????????
>
> Greg
>
>
> > <html><body>
> >
> >
> > <tt>
> > In a message dated 7/16/2003 9:04:28 AM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> jjmurphy@...
> writes: 
> > 
> > > Interesting that Moogs raised such a big fuss
> and nobody 
> > > seems to have 
> > > noticed these Janissary guys.>> 
> > 
> > I agree. 1. The 'moog fuss' is way overdone. 2.
> Janissaries are only
> good, as you said, with something to chase away
> screen, otherwise a 2E unit of
> LI makes
> them worthless. 
> > </tt>
> >
> > 
> >
> > 
> >
> > <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
> > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
> > <td align=center> color=#003399>Yahoo! Groups
> Sponsor</td>
> > </tr>
> > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
> > <td align=center width=470><table border=0
> cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> <tr>
> <td
> align=center> size=-2>ADVERTISEMENT <a
>
href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3551198.4824677.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705059
>
080:HM/A=1663535/R=0/SIG=11ps6rfef/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?
> code=30504&media=atkins"
> alt=""><img
>
src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ed/ediets/stat_300x250_atkinsnewsvii.gi
> f"
> alt="click here" width="300" height="250"
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> >
> > 
> >
> >
> > 
> > <tt>
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> to: 
> > WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com 
> > 
> > </tt>
> > 
> >
> > 
> > <tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
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> Terms of Service</a>.</tt>
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> >
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