Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

I spent some time soaking up rum and comtemplating the book of
Warrior this past weekend. I again turned to Hoplites and has a
question born of rum, schooled in fultility, explored on the table.

If I build a hoplite army around a core of 6x 12E RgD MI LTS/sh and
run these as a solid wall, what can stop them? They take damage as
40 man units if run 4E across.
Wanax

[Bill Chriss]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "spocksleftball"
<spocksleftball@y...> wrote:
> I spent some time soaking up rum and comtemplating the book of
> Warrior this past weekend. I again turned to Hoplites and has a
> question born of rum, schooled in fultility, explored on the table.
>
> If I build a hoplite army around a core of 6x 12E RgD MI LTS/sh and
> run these as a solid wall, what can stop them? They take damage as
> 40 man units if run 4E across.
> Wanax


Si eise o' andros. Which in Greek means "You are the man."
This is the kind of player we need, one who shuns effeminate, trouser
wearing, missile tactics and barbarian impetuousity.

However....the answer is that any number of things can cause you big
problems. Believe me, I know. Try Romans for example, or Moogs, or
massed EHK or SHK, or Elephants. Sure they'll commit vast points to
break one 40 man unit, but with D's, one broken unit, and the whole
line becomes a domino cascade like one sees in Guiness Book Of World
Record contests.

I prefer a core of Reg B hoplites with front rank HI, anchored by
rough terrain, supported by LOTS and LOTS of Regular LTS,JLS, Sh
Peltasts, and Lots and lots of LI with sling or JLS.


The Greek Kid

[Todd Schneider]

IMO Terrain will. And I think it would be quite
conceivable for an opponent to mass his shock troops
on one Flnak, or perhaps even the center, of your army
to force one unit back and poosibly forcing it to take
a waver test.
I am not up to speed on the math though, and I am sure
other veteran players of warrior will have their two
cents to add.

Todd

--- spocksleftball <spocksleftball@...> wrote:

---------------------------------
I spent some time soaking up rum and comtemplating the
book of
Warrior this past weekend. I again turned to Hoplites
and has a
question born of rum, schooled in fultility, explored
on the table.

If I build a hoplite army around a core of 6x 12E RgD
MI LTS/sh and
run these as a solid wall, what can stop them? They
take damage as
40 man units if run 4E across.
Wanax



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Ok I’ll bite on this – but will say that there are way too many variables to
cover close to everything.

1600 points: I agree that almost anyone in disordering terrain will give
them fits. But assuming that this core makes up around 1200 points
(including command) of an army, that leaves 400 points to try to make this a
two dimensional army again – tough, but not impossible.

In a Hoplites dream, you will need clear terrain to the front of you, not
facing P or HTW and having your flanks protected by impassable terrain, in
other words: Thermopylae. I for one, as your opponent, would not be so
obliging. I would pin you down with skirmishers to your front and work on
one or both flanks of the Phalanx – once one of those D units fails a waver
test, then my work is nearly complete. Your poor morale will take care of
the rest.

The other thing is that you would have a hard time being aggressive – after
your first charge attempt (assuming you had them under an attack order)
passes and your enemy is still there (skirmishing), then the waver tests to
charge can and probably will cause you some problems.



-----Original Message-----
From: spocksleftball [mailto:spocksleftball@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 12:32 PM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WarriorRules] More tacticals

I spent some time soaking up rum and comtemplating the book of
Warrior this past weekend. I again turned to Hoplites and has a
question born of rum, schooled in fultility, explored on the table.

If I build a hoplite army around a core of 6x 12E RgD MI LTS/sh and
run these as a solid wall, what can stop them? They take damage as
40 man units if run 4E across.
Wanax


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Kelly Wilkinson]

How about moogs or Legionaires with new cheesey rules? Or for that matter,
Spanish? Or how about anybody that has loaded dice and plays an ireg A army? Or
perhaps a flank march? Or how about anyone who takes 4 brushes and clogs up the
central deployment area? ingenious usage of terrain can always give an army of
that sort a hair pulling experience for it's commander!

kelly

spocksleftball <spocksleftball@...> wrote:
I spent some time soaking up rum and comtemplating the book of
Warrior this past weekend. I again turned to Hoplites and has a
question born of rum, schooled in fultility, explored on the table.

If I build a hoplite army around a core of 6x 12E RgD MI LTS/sh and
run these as a solid wall, what can stop them? They take damage as
40 man units if run 4E across.
Wanax



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[scott holder]

How about moogs or Legionaires with new cheesey rules?

>Yunno, if you don't like this stuff, you don't have to play this game. Or you
can keep this snide ass comments and other harping issues like how the Byzantine
lists came out to yourself.

scott

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 1/21/2004 9:12:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Scott.Holder@... writes:

> How about moogs or Legionaires with new cheesey rules?
>
> >Yunno, if you don't like this stuff, you don't have to play this game. Or
you can keep this snide ass comments and other harping issues like how the
Byzantine lists came out to
> yourself.
>
> scott>>

Ok, boys - go to your rooms...lol

In Scott's defense, he's working pretty hard on Imperial Warrior and we have all
been at the Roman list rules for some time. To have them called 'cheesey' by
someone who hasn't even seen them is particularly aggravating.

Complaints to us, especially about some proposed product you know something
about, are encouraged here. Side shots at something you don't like about
Warrior, especially things not in your area of knowledge or that have already
been decided upon, are not welcome and I have said so before. This isn't a
forum for simple bashing of any rules set, and that includes ours.

I have also asked that folks watch out for replying to all or nearly every mail
without something useful to contribute besides nonsense comments or simple
agreement without further discussion because it fills folks' mailboxes and
encourages them to go to digest, no mail or leave the group entirely.

Please give some thought to your mails and their impact on others.

Scott, this goes for you, too... :)

[Greg Regets]

Actually Kelly, since you play down here so often, you get a chance
to use them, as we pretty much allow all the old lists down here in
Texas. :-)

FYI ... I'm REALLY looking forward to whatever Scott & Co. does with
the pre-Severan Legionaries. That has been an under-appreciated troop
type for about as long as I have been pushing lead.

As far as the regular Varangians go, they operate well in small units
used in conjunction with your other troops. You have to be able to
get them to charge, or they just get their butt kicked by almost
anything. My advice ... rebase them as irregulars, or just don't buy
them at all.

g

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> I have also asked that folks watch out for replying to all or
nearly every mail without something useful to contribute besides
nonsense comments or simple agreement without further discussion
because it fills folks' mailboxes and encourages them to go to
digest, no mail or leave the group entirely.

Jon I would hope that my recent spate of tactical oreinted emails
does not fall under this catagory. Speaking for myself, I find it
one of the key attractions of Warrior over other probable systems
that 10 people will have 10 to 20 variatioins on the same list
tactically. This is the best forum for us to explore these ideas
mutually.

Wanax

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Regets" <gar@t...> wrote:
> As far as the regular Varangians go, they operate well in small
units
> used in conjunction with your other troops. You have to be able to
> get them to charge, or they just get their butt kicked by almost
> anything. My advice ... rebase them as irregulars, or just don't
buy
> them at all.
>
> g

I have the lead for Nikephorians in 25mm and looked long and hard at
these chaps. the fact that you can actually buy them as Vikings
makes me giddy with reason, and they are effective as such. However,
at 1200pts if you want SHC and enough LMI B to ward off all
things "anti-horse" out there, then you can't afford them anyway. :(

Wanax
lover of SHC

[scott holder]

Jon I would hope that my recent spate of tactical oreinted emails
does not fall under this catagory. Speaking for myself, I find it
one of the key attractions of Warrior over other probable systems
that 10 people will have 10 to 20 variatioins on the same list
tactically. This is the best forum for us to explore these ideas
mutually.

>FWIW, I don't think your emails fall under that category. I find the back and
forth comments on armies and what people are trying to achieve to be very
interesting reading.

scott

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 1/21/2004 10:33:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
spocksleftball@... writes:

> Jon I would hope that my recent spate of tactical oreinted emails
> does not fall under this catagory. Speaking for myself, I find it
> one of the key attractions of Warrior over other probable systems
> that 10 people will have 10 to 20 variatioins on the same list
> tactically. This is the best forum for us to explore these
> ideas
> mutually.
>
> Wanax>>



Quite the contrary, Boyd, you are resposnible for what I think is one of the
best threads we've had going - and I agree it is exactly the type of discussion
I think belongs here.

Here's an example of what I am talking about.

Player 1 mail: "Troop type X is great. Here's why....etc."

Player 2 mail: "Yes it is!" (nothing else in the mail)

Player 3 mail: "I have hated what the FH has done with troop type X from the
moment they made their final decision 2 years ago."

Mail 1 is super. Mail 2 isn't bad by itself, but a lot of them from the same
guy in a short amount of time is bad. Mail 3 is bad, period. lol

Now, here's a couple more:

Player 4 Mail: "Troop type Y is useless, here's why..."

Player 5 mail: "I understand you are planning on giving troop type Z HTW, B and
JLS. I don't agree. My research shows that..."

Both 4 and 5 are fine.

Jon

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Scott,

I lament the fact that you chose to make certain figures which I own
irrelevant. Cheesey is sometimes good. The comment is not snide. Remember, not
everyone will tow the party line and for you to expect this of anyone is somehow
un-American. Sadly, when I do ask a question regarding something mundane such in
reference to the upcoming Sung Chinese, you choose not to respond. My reference
to Boyd strictly was showing him that there are many pitfalls to such an army
list of big fat units of Reg D MI LTS, Sh.
I've talked with Paul Georgian about this Byzantine and my read on this is
that the troop types in question could have just as likely been allowed. Nothing
EVER is set in stone. Ask WRG, they have bent in the wind of change and still
survive. I appreciate your scholarly work, but I don't have to agree with all of
the decisions you make. And just because I or others do disagree on certain
issues does not mean because we disagree with you that we are "Negative and
Sarcastic." I purchased Dave Smith's beautiful Marian Roman army that he painted
(Which I may add is absolutley beautiful!) in anticipation of the new Roman
rules. I can't wait to see what you have done to make them more historical. The
way they are now, they should put a good stomping on hoplites. But if the
special rules are anything like the Fast Warrior List, Boyd's Kids don't stand a
snowballs chance in Hades against such a well oiled machine. Too bad or too good
you didn't get to know me better because you would
know that to me, cheesey is a good thing.

"It ain't easy being Cheesey, but somehow I manage!"

kelly wilkinson
PS Boyd, consider putting 1 element of Reg C's in each unit to keep them from
waiver-testing when prompted to charge after the first bound this only costs 4
extra points per unit. This will allow them to at least stay on the attack and
for heaven's sake---Force march the whole student body to the center and push!
push! And Push the enemy off the table!

"Holder, Scott" <Scott.Holder@...> wrote:
How about moogs or Legionaires with new cheesey rules?

>Yunno, if you don't like this stuff, you don't have to play this game. Or you
can keep this snide ass comments and other harping issues like how the Byzantine
lists came out to yourself.

scott


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[Kelly Wilkinson]

Greg,
I too can't wait to see what comes out in Imperial Warrior with rapt
anticipation. I've owned several pre-Diocletian armies and the Legionaires just
were never up to snuff in the tournament game. Ofcourse, that friend of mine in
Simsbury managed to whip my Seleucids with them as he would always say, "What
are you complaining about, Kelly, you've got everything you need, Reg B morale
and HTW!" And then he took that army and laid down a good spanking on Antiochus
III! lol!

kelly

Greg Regets <gar@...> wrote:
Actually Kelly, since you play down here so often, you get a chance
to use them, as we pretty much allow all the old lists down here in
Texas. :-)

FYI ... I'm REALLY looking forward to whatever Scott & Co. does with
the pre-Severan Legionaries. That has been an under-appreciated troop
type for about as long as I have been pushing lead.

As far as the regular Varangians go, they operate well in small units
used in conjunction with your other troops. You have to be able to
get them to charge, or they just get their butt kicked by almost
anything. My advice ... rebase them as irregulars, or just don't buy
them at all.

g



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