Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[John Garlic]

Hi All,

Just looking at some steppe army lists which lack knights, elephants, and
chariots. Primary strike force seems to be Irr HC L, B, Sh. I've tried to use
a
smattering of these in 2E and 4E units, but really seem to be missing
something. I'm curious what kind of ideas for unit sizes and ways to better
employ
these guys in conjunction with Irr LC.

Thanks,
John Garlic


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[John Garlic]

Hi Todd,

Aieeee, I left my list on desk at work along with list books. IIRC, they
were Irr LC B with option to add Sh. I really like the HC L B Sh troop type,
just looking for ideas on employment. I've tried skirmish in the face of
knights, but invariably one of my units gets caught evading and the cascading
wavers
begin ;-(

John

In a message dated 5/17/2005 8:34:13 PM Central Standard Time,
thresh1642@... writes:
John

Are the LC also mostly B, or JLS B combination as
well?

Todd


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Todd Schneider]

John

Are the LC also mostly B, or JLS B combination as
well?

Todd


--- jmgarlic@... wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Just looking at some steppe army lists which lack
> knights, elephants, and
> chariots. Primary strike force seems to be Irr HC
> L, B, Sh. I've tried to use a
> smattering of these in 2E and 4E units, but really
> seem to be missing
> something. I'm curious what kind of ideas for unit
> sizes and ways to better employ
> these guys in conjunction with Irr LC.
>
> Thanks,
> John Garlic
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

[Mark Stone]

--- On May 18 John Garlic said: ---

>
> Just looking at some steppe army lists which lack knights, elephants, and
> chariots. Primary strike force seems to be Irr HC L, B, Sh. I've tried to use
> a smattering of these in 2E and 4E units, but really seem to be missing
> something. I'm curious what kind of ideas for unit sizes and ways to better
> employ these guys in conjunction with Irr LC.
>

You're talking about one of my favorite army types. I dearly miss the old WRG
Khazars list; not that I think it's historically more accurate than the FHE
list, just that it was a nice, balanced, playable list (though no "killer").

I do have two armies of this ilk that I play from time to time, though neither
performs as well as I'd like: Russ (with Bulgar allies), and Post Mongol
Russian. Here are a few thoughts that went into the selection of these armies,
and the composition of them once selected.

By going with HC, you're basically favoring quantity over quality. Instead of
working with 24-36 lancers (a typical SHK army configuration), you're really
looking for 36-48 of these guys in mostly 6 figure units. Some could be in 12
figure units.

The problem is how to compose some sort of effective battle line or screen,
given the significant vulnerabilities that HC have: they don't do well
frontally against a lot of fairly tough and fairly common foot, and they don't
do well against massed missile fire.

With the Russ, the core of the battle line is composed of the Russ spearmen.
This works well as they beat many of the things the HC are vulnerable to (such
as elephants), and can hold their own against the rest.

With the Post Mongol Russians, the core of the battle line is composed of 18
figure units that have 12 MC in the back, and 6 HC in the front. These spend a
lot of time skirmishing, often at long range. But they are very cheap, and very
hard for non-missile troops to kill. They can also be dangerous if a careless
opponent gives you a chance to mass a lot of your shooting on a single point.

Neither of these armies would work at all without the other key ingredient:
shielded LI with bow. Small units of HC really come into their own when backing
up LI. A typical battle plan has the core in the middle of the line, and the
wings composed of alternating units of LI and LC, with the HC behind the LI
(and _never_ behind the LC). A combination of shielded LI and quality LC should
drive off your opponent's skirmish line, particularly when your HC make it
difficult for him to just charge down your LI. Once you've driven off his
skirmishers, you are looking for an exposed flank the HC can charge into, or a
hinge in his line you can concentrate shooting on and then charge with the HC
once the hinge is tired and/or disordered. It helps if you have some decent
shock foot that can slam into things the HC don't want to charge. The Russ are
a nice choice here because they can get the Varangian contingent. The Post
Mongol Russians have to make do with just have, but their cav comes in very
points-optimized configurations.

The other lists that come to mind as really strong lists in this style are
Ottoman Turks (either Early or Late).

Some things to look for in picking a list of this style: since you are hoping to
make quantity your advantage, you don't want to waste points where you don't
have to. The ideal would be to start out as shieldless MC with bow, and have
the option of adding lance, adding shields, and upgrading to HC, but no
requirement to do so. Shields after the front rank are wasted points for HC and
MC, and at 2 points per figure that adds up. While MC are quite vulnerable, they
are also really cheap, and can be effective in large units. The same
considerations apply to LC. While units that are all JLS,B,Sh are powerful,
they are also expensive. Better to find LC bow that has the option to add
shields and/or JLS as you wish.

PLaying an army entirely of irregulars is difficult, particularly when your goal
is to be enveloping and outflanking your opponent. So some regulars make a big
difference. The most important troop type for which to have some regulars is
probably the LC, though regular LI is nice if you can find it on any of the
lists of this style. I'm less inclined to look for regulars in the HC or MC as
it just makes these guys too expensive, and also creates issues with how to get
them going impetously.

Hope this helps.


-Mark Stone