Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 2/14/2006 18:57:16 Central Standard Time,
pcelella@... writes:

Well all, I'm very thrilled with the revision to the Roman list rule.
In fact, I'm playing a Polybian Roman list this weekend, and I am very
much looking forward to how the rules play out in action. I'll let you
all know how it goes.>>
Would you post your list here or send it to me off line?

Jon




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well all, I'm very thrilled with the revision to the Roman list rule.
In fact, I'm playing a Polybian Roman list this weekend, and I am very
much looking forward to how the rules play out in action. I'll let you
all know how it goes.

[joncleaves]

My version maxes out on Velites and has less Spanish foot...
Numidian cav and elephants are fun, as well.

Jon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

2E Irr D El is an unease cause and a K-blocker.

Note the circulating combatants rule applies to velites. This is the
only list with that ability.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sure Jon, I don't mind sharing. Here it goes:

Polybian Roman

CINC 2E RA HC JLS,Sh 160
Principes/Hastati 3x4E RC HI HTW,Sh 3x106
Velites 2x2E RC LI JLS,Sh 2x26
Triari 4E RB HI LTS,Sh 122
Peltasts 4E RC LMI LTS,JLS,Sh 90
Italian Infantry 4E RB LHI/LMI JLS,Sh 106
Slingers 4E RC LI S,Sh 42
Tarantine Cavalry 4E RC LC JLS,Sh 74

Spanish Ally 2E IB HC JLS,Sh 120
Light Cavalry 4E IB/IC LC JLS,Sh 77
Caetrati 6E IC LI JLS,Sh 61
Scutarii 2x6E 1E IA,5E IC LMI HTW,JLS,Sh 2x103
Celtiberians 2x4E IB LMI HTW,JLS,Sh 2x85

35 Scouting Points, 1598 Total Points

The one thing I've been struggling with is whether to drop the Italian
infantry, and to substitute another unit of Principes/Hastati, but
other than that, there you are.

Peter

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2/14/2006 18:57:16 Central Standard Time,
> pcelella@... writes:
>
> Well all, I'm very thrilled with the revision to the Roman list rule.
> In fact, I'm playing a Polybian Roman list this weekend, and I am very
> much looking forward to how the rules play out in action. I'll let you
> all know how it goes.>>
> Would you post your list here or send it to me off line?
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I thought about using more Velites, and I guess I could do that
instead of the Italian ally or Peltasts - but not this weekend. What
I've got is all that I have painted up and ready to go for now.
Depending on how the list plays, I'll think about changes after.

I have all that Spanish foot, since I was planning to muck up the
board on at least one flank with woods/brush terrain, and try to
attack through that while holding the center and other flank steady
with the Romans.

As far as elephants go, I have a Marian Roman list that uses a
Numidian ally with 6 elephants, (I only have 4 painted up now thought)
but the Polybians only get a 2E unit of Morale D elephants, right? I
didn't want to go there the first time trying out the Polybians.

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@... wrote:
>
> My version maxes out on Velites and has less Spanish foot...
> Numidian cav and elephants are fun, as well.
>
> Jon
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Mike Bard]

I find the elephants great when you arm them with 2xB each. You walk them
forward with a LI escort towards the enemy cavalry. You shoot them, and if
you disorder them either by shooting, or by being with 120p, you can charge
them unprompted. :)

As to the army, I have a friend I sold the army I painted to and he's trying
to get it to work. He likes the Hastati/Principes units in 2 element
blocks, I prefer them in 4 or 6 element blocks. What's the best way to get
the "checkerboard" to work? Or, is it abstracted at the rank replacement
level? He keeps putting his little units into a neat checkerboard and
getting squashed...

Michael Bard
That Greek Hoplite Guy (who isn't dead yet... )


> I thought about using more Velites, and I guess I could do that
> instead of the Italian ally or Peltasts - but not this weekend. What
> I've got is all that I have painted up and ready to go for now.
> Depending on how the list plays, I'll think about changes after.
>
> I have all that Spanish foot, since I was planning to muck up the
> board on at least one flank with woods/brush terrain, and try to
> attack through that while holding the center and other flank steady
> with the Romans.
>
> As far as elephants go, I have a Marian Roman list that uses a
> Numidian ally with 6 elephants, (I only have 4 painted up now thought)
> but the Polybians only get a 2E unit of Morale D elephants, right? I
> didn't want to go there the first time trying out the Polybians.
>
> --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@... wrote:
> >
> > My version maxes out on Velites and has less Spanish foot...
> > Numidian cav and elephants are fun, as well.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Bard" <mwbard@...> wrote:
>
> I find the elephants great when you arm them with 2xB each. You
walk them
> forward with a LI escort towards the enemy cavalry. You shoot them,
and if
> you disorder them either by shooting, or by being with 120p, you can
charge
> them unprompted.
>

I think the Polybian elephants are JLS only (I don't have the list
book here with me at work.)

> As to the army, I have a friend I sold the army I painted to and
he's trying
> to get it to work. He likes the Hastati/Principes units in 2 element
> blocks, I prefer them in 4 or 6 element blocks. What's the best way
to get
> the "checkerboard" to work? Or, is it abstracted at the rank
replacement
> level? He keeps putting his little units into a neat checkerboard and
> getting squashed...
>

In my imagination, the checkerboard deployment is abstrated into the
rank replacement. That's why the Hastati/Principes is listed as a
single unit type, right?

[joncleaves]

In my imagination, the checkerboard deployment is abstrated into the
rank replacement. That's why the Hastati/Principes is listed as a
single unit type, right?>>

Indeed.

Jon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Bill Chriss]

> My version maxes out on Velites and has less Spanish foot...
> Numidian cav and elephants are fun, as well.
>
> Jon
>
>
I agree with Jon here. I haven't looked at the list or its minima in a
long, long time, but a unit or two of Irr B HTW, Sh Celtiberians is
always nice, too, if the new list allows that troop type.

-Greek

Can we see your version, Jon? (or may be a secret weapon )
Emilio.





My version maxes out on Velites and has less Spanish foot...

Numidian cav and elephants are fun, as well.



Jon





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]













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Well:

After playing this weekend, I must state, you guys were right - there
is too much Spanish foot in this list. I played a Late Hungarian list
and a Merovigian Frank list, and in both games, the Spanish were
essentially nothing but targets.

The legions were fun to play with the new rules, but even with these,
in straight up matchups with the barbarian warbands, did not win. I
think that you need a second legion to back up the first and charge in
after the first round of combat - so maybe what is needed is a
combination of 2E and 4E legion units. And most definitely more velites.

I'm going to still work on this. I think this army can be definitely
made a competitive one, if not a 'killer' one.

Peter

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Celella" <pcelella@...> wrote:
>
> Sure Jon, I don't mind sharing. Here it goes:
>
> Polybian Roman
>
> CINC 2E RA HC JLS,Sh 160
> Principes/Hastati 3x4E RC HI HTW,Sh 3x106
> Velites 2x2E RC LI JLS,Sh 2x26
> Triari 4E RB HI LTS,Sh 122
> Peltasts 4E RC LMI LTS,JLS,Sh 90
> Italian Infantry 4E RB LHI/LMI JLS,Sh 106
> Slingers 4E RC LI S,Sh 42
> Tarantine Cavalry 4E RC LC JLS,Sh 74
>
> Spanish Ally 2E IB HC JLS,Sh 120
> Light Cavalry 4E IB/IC LC JLS,Sh 77
> Caetrati 6E IC LI JLS,Sh 61
> Scutarii 2x6E 1E IA,5E IC LMI HTW,JLS,Sh 2x103
> Celtiberians 2x4E IB LMI HTW,JLS,Sh 2x85
>
> 35 Scouting Points, 1598 Total Points
>

[Bill Chriss]

> The legions were fun to play with the new rules, but even with these,
> in straight up matchups with the barbarian warbands, did not win. I
> think that you need a second legion to back up the first and charge in
> after the first round of combat - so maybe what is needed is a
> combination of 2E and 4E legion units.

As Ewan has already indicated, this is undoubtedly true. Most regular
armies (and many irreg ones) require this kind of 1-2 punch type of
strategy. This is especially true of Romans that must take full advantage
of the list rules that facilitate this, i.e., replacing units in combat
without disadvantage.

-Greek

[Todd Kaeser]

Peter,

Just a few thoughts - Here's my list on Polybian - ran them a few years ago
under a few different circumstances, but this is how I would run them w/ the new
lists.

CinC 1E Reg A HC Jls,Sh + PA - 154
Sub 2E Reg A/B HC Jls,Sh + P - 117
3x 2E Tarentines Reg C LC Jls,Sh - 42 ea - 126 total
2x 2E Triarii Reg B HI LTS,Sh - 66 ea - 132
8x 2E Princ/Hast Reg B HI HTW,Sh - 66 ea - 528
2E Elephants Ir D 2 w/ Jls
5x 2E Velites Reg C LI Jls,Sh - 26 ea - 130
2x 4E Spanish Scut Ir C (1E A) LMI HTW,Jls,Sh - 79 ea - 158
3x 2E Achaean Peltasts Reg C LMI LTS,Jls,Sh - 50 ea - 150

total pts - 1596
scouting - 26

I love the 2E units. While they are not as tough as the 4E or 6E variety they
serve their purpose well and having many of them allowes for multiple waves and
flexibility in movement. The Elephants are needed for unease and giving attack
orders gives them a free charge. Interdespered w/ the legions and the amount of
LI, their free charge should go off when you want it to. I would throw steep
and rocky hills, and marshes/woods to limit the board. You have enough loose
units to fill the terrain and enough close punch to fill the gaps in between.

my 2 cents here,

Todd K

Peter Celella <pcelella@...> wrote:
Well:

After playing this weekend, I must state, you guys were right - there
is too much Spanish foot in this list. I played a Late Hungarian list
and a Merovigian Frank list, and in both games, the Spanish were
essentially nothing but targets.

The legions were fun to play with the new rules, but even with these,
in straight up matchups with the barbarian warbands, did not win. I
think that you need a second legion to back up the first and charge in
after the first round of combat - so maybe what is needed is a
combination of 2E and 4E legion units. And most definitely more velites.

I'm going to still work on this. I think this army can be definitely
made a competitive one, if not a 'killer' one.

Peter

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Celella" <pcelella@...> wrote:
>
> Sure Jon, I don't mind sharing. Here it goes:
>
> Polybian Roman
>
> CINC 2E RA HC JLS,Sh 160
> Principes/Hastati 3x4E RC HI HTW,Sh 3x106
> Velites 2x2E RC LI JLS,Sh 2x26
> Triari 4E RB HI LTS,Sh 122
> Peltasts 4E RC LMI LTS,JLS,Sh 90
> Italian Infantry 4E RB LHI/LMI JLS,Sh 106
> Slingers 4E RC LI S,Sh 42
> Tarantine Cavalry 4E RC LC JLS,Sh 74
>
> Spanish Ally 2E IB HC JLS,Sh 120
> Light Cavalry 4E IB/IC LC JLS,Sh 77
> Caetrati 6E IC LI JLS,Sh 61
> Scutarii 2x6E 1E IA,5E IC LMI HTW,JLS,Sh 2x103
> Celtiberians 2x4E IB LMI HTW,JLS,Sh 2x85
>
> 35 Scouting Points, 1598 Total Points
>






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Todd:

That list looks very interesting, and I have the lead to try it (or
something like it) out, once I paint up some more velites. My only
concern would be that there are a total of 14E of LMI, either Spanish
or Peltast, and wonder if I might be better off with a few less and
some more legions or velites instead.

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Todd Kaeser <hailkaeser@...> wrote:
>
> Peter,
>
> Just a few thoughts - Here's my list on Polybian - ran them a few
years ago under a few different circumstances, but this is how I would
run them w/ the new lists.
>
> CinC 1E Reg A HC Jls,Sh + PA - 154
> Sub 2E Reg A/B HC Jls,Sh + P - 117
> 3x 2E Tarentines Reg C LC Jls,Sh - 42 ea - 126 total
> 2x 2E Triarii Reg B HI LTS,Sh - 66 ea - 132
> 8x 2E Princ/Hast Reg B HI HTW,Sh - 66 ea - 528
> 2E Elephants Ir D 2 w/ Jls
> 5x 2E Velites Reg C LI Jls,Sh - 26 ea - 130
> 2x 4E Spanish Scut Ir C (1E A) LMI HTW,Jls,Sh - 79 ea - 158
> 3x 2E Achaean Peltasts Reg C LMI LTS,Jls,Sh - 50 ea - 150
>
> total pts - 1596
> scouting - 26
>
> I love the 2E units. While they are not as tough as the 4E or 6E
variety they serve their purpose well and having many of them allowes
for multiple waves and flexibility in movement. The Elephants are
needed for unease and giving attack orders gives them a free charge.
Interdespered w/ the legions and the amount of LI, their free charge
should go off when you want it to. I would throw steep and rocky
hills, and marshes/woods to limit the board. You have enough loose
units to fill the terrain and enough close punch to fill the gaps in
between.
>
> my 2 cents here,
>
> Todd K
>