Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

This is primarily for John Murphy, but might also be for anyone following the
replacing discussion of the last few days.

John, something about our discussion about first contact in all that stuff on
replacing has been nagging at me. There is a clarification on this that has
been around for some time, quoted here:

"6.523 (Pg 55) Add to end: “When replacing in combat, the charger is
considered at first contact, but the target is not.�

I think somewhere in all our converstions I may have mislead you to believe that
in a replaced charge the target also got to count at first contact, which is not
the case. I am sorry if this happened and it caused confusion.

Jon

[John Murphy]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> This is primarily for John Murphy, but might also be for anyone
following the replacing discussion of the last few days.

I would _think_ anyone planning on playing in the H-con theme would
_like_ to know this... but hey there is a whole lot of silence on
this question outside of me so I guess everyone else understands
perfectly.

> I think somewhere in all our converstions I may have mislead you to
believe that in a replaced charge the target also got to count at
first contact, which is not the case. I am sorry if this happened
and it caused confusion.

Okay, no problem and thanks for correcting my misled understanding
now.

BUT...

Please also go on now to explain if that only affects first contact
for ranks/weapon usage or also subsequent bound HtH for overlaps?

I admit to tying these together in mind conceptually at some point
rather than in the language of the rules, but please elaborate for me.

After all, as it stands with no overlaps... if the target of the
replacement charge can't get charge responses, support shoot, first-
contact ranks or weapons, or overlaps then we are back to the hopeful
way I first read it when the Romans were really looking like total
ass-kickers!

Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, this is a real difficult
thing to set up especially for slow CO foot. And there are probably
still better ways to effect a 1-2 punch most of the time.

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 4/19/2004 12:13:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jjmurphy@... writes:

> Please also go on now to explain if that only affects first contact
> for ranks/weapon usage or also subsequent bound HtH for overlaps?>>

First contact is a weapon concept that has nothing to do directly with overlaps.
Overlap is governed by 9.2 and you'll see there that you can only get overlap
against an opponent if it is a subsequent bound of hand to hand against that
opponent. So, yes, they are similar, but not precisely the same.

Jon

[Larry Essick]

Jon,

What value is there, then, for circulating troops forward and
replacing in combat? If it does not let the Romans count their HTW,
then it is not a very useful list rule. If it allows a knight to use
his L in the next bound, rather than his other cavalry weapons, then
it is really not useful.

Of all the weapon types, HTW is one of the very few that count only at
first contact. Off the top of my head, I can't recall others.

It might be that L wouldn't count as that is only charge,
counter-charge, or pursuit.

Even so, the Roman special rule seems to be designed to let you bring
the HTW up from the rear and get another opportunity at the higher
factor. If not, it really has no value or impact on the game at all,
does it?

What am I missing?

Larry

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 4/19/2004 12:46:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
larryessick@... writes:

> What value is there, then, for circulating troops forward and
> replacing in combat? If it does not let the Romans count their HTW,
> then it is not a very useful list rule. If it allows a knight to use
> his L in the next bound, rather than his other cavalry
> weapons, then
> it is really not useful.>>

The charger counts as first contact, Larry. Just not the target of the charge -
a roman replacing by charging through another would get his HTW.

J

[Larry Essick]

> The charger counts as first contact, Larry. Just not the target of
the charge - a roman replacing by charging through another would get
his HTW.

(LE) OK, that is what I had thought, but not how I understood your
message. Thanks for the clarification.

Larry (who with many others is finally breaking down and considering
the evil Romans)