Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

Hey everybody!

I see that there are two separate issues here with wavering tests
from prep shooting.

The first is the 2 CPF waver test, which CAN SOMETIMES be avoided,
REGARDLESS OF DISORDER. I see this as a "Harm Minimisation Policy",
which varies with each troop type. There are ways of avoiding it,
depending on your troop type AND your battlefield circumstances.
(eg: light troops recall, elephants halt, etc...) This is complicated
by the fact that circumstances can change.

So a skirmishing body (or a Light body) would PREFER TO CHOOSE to
deal with 2 CPF firepower by Recalling, or by evading if charged
before they can Recall. If (for example) an enemy unit's position
prevented either response (e.g. thanks to a breakthrough move,
preventing a Recall), then it's a case of "Oh, bogg! We can't do that
- we have to waver test INSTEAD!" Similarly, if the unit CHOSE to
stay put, it would need to test straight away.


This is in contrast to a disordering 3 CPF, which CANNOT BE AVOIDED
IF ALREADY DISORDERED, and is a "We're Being Harmed Right Bloody Now!"
RESPONSE.

Assume you take 3 CPF from prep shooting. If you were steady BEFORE
PREP SHOOTING STARTS, all you suffer from the 3 CPFs is disorder.
The 2 CPF result is a SIMULTANEOUS combat result, so failing the 2 CPF
result does not complicate your 3 CPF result.

My analogy is this. Consider foot fighting mounted. If the foot take 3
CPF hand-to-hand and more (but not twice as many, so they don't break)
then they get one combat disorder for 3 CPFs, AND another one for
"Foot fighting mounted taking 1 CPF and more vs mounted", yet this all
counts as one cause of combat disorder ONLY, simply because it is all
inflicted simultaneously - that is, in the same PHASE of combat.

I think the same applies to prep shooting: If you are steady, then
take 3 CPFs from prep shooting, then the 2 CPFs MAY trigger a wavering
test, but even if you immediately fail it, the shaken = disordered
result does not compound the 3 CPFs = disorder because it is a
simultaneous result.

Jon, you really need to spell this out, especially if I'm wrong. But
I think it's pretty obvious. A newbie may have difficulty with the
subtle interactions...

IF already disordered (for whatever reason, even something as girly
as dismounting), THEN 3 CPFs triggers a "BECOME DISORDERED COMBAT
RESULT when ALREADY disordered." You are already in a confused state,
and now you cop a physical beating (even if it's from a distance).
Lesser troops panic, but surely us Romans are better than that? Test
waver to prove your mettle!

I see this as totally separate to the 2 CPF result, even though it
may interact with it. (For those unfamiliar with the rules, the rule
interactions are in fact critical to any chance of success. This is
where Jon takes 3 CPFs and tests wavering for writing rules...)

As for the timing...

Assume a STEADY body takes 3 CPF from prep shooting:

First, I feel that if a STEADY body takes 3 CPFs from prep shooting,
it totally ignores any "Become disordered combat result whilst
already disordered", simply because IT WAS NOT DISORDERED BEFORE PREP
SHOOTING WAS INITIATED, even if it should fail a wavering test because
it takes 2 CPFs (thereby SHAKING and so being DISORDERED) because it
cannot or chooses not to take the requisite wavering test. (refer to
my foot vs mounted h-2-h example above)

Secondly, if it is already disordered (for whatever pathetic reason),
then the OBLIGATORY "Become disordered COMBAT RESULT whilst already
disordered" triggers BEFORE any 2 CPF response is chosen...



Jon, I feel the best way to encode this into your rules is to
distinguish between OBLIGATORY waver tests and VOLUNTARY waver tests
in the following way:

1) OBLIGATORY waver tests, which have to be taken immediately they
are triggered, and for each and every trigger. (e.g. Each routing unit
in 120 paces would be 1 trigger per routing unit).

2) VOLUNTARY waver tests (which currently are only RESPONSES TO 2 CPF
PREP SHOOTING). If the victim cannot or chooses not to take the
appropriate response (as determined by 11.1), that body must
immediately test wavering. Even if it does make the appropriate
choice, if that choice has not been enacted then THAT BODY MUST
IMMEDIATELY TEST WAVERING AS SOON AS IT'S CHOSEN RESPONSE CAN NO
LONGER BE MADE.

You can probably word 2) better but I hope you get my gist, which is
choosing to respond to 2 CPFs could be negated before the chosen
action can actually be made.

Cheers,

Terry

[joncleaves]

<< Jon, you really need to spell this out, especially if I'm wrong. But
I think it's pretty obvious. A newbie may have difficulty with the
subtle interactions... >>


Spell what out? I read several paragraphs of stuff I did not recognize, and
did not see the question. You gotta make this easy on me.

Jon