Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

In a recent game these questions came up:

1. Under the competition battle rules 14.43 states that players define
their troop types at the outset – does this include unit size as well? It
really didn’t matter – it was a curious question that was raised as we
looked down at a line of MI P of 36 elements.

2. 8.3 Target Priorities #2 – who is referred to here as “it”? The
shooting unit or the target unit? In other words is the enemy directly in
front to be the priority target if it is simply in range of the shooter OR
is it stating that the enemy is a priority target only if that enemy is
capable of firing at the shooter’s unit.

3. MAY a Unit (not an expendable) continue a charge voluntarily in
subsequent bounds or MUST it stop? In this case a unit of EHC JLS charged a
unit of LMI from 3 1/8” – the LMI was in skirmish formation and evaded
successfully. The EHC stopped at 1 1/8” from the LMI after the variables
were taken into account – could it have continued? 5.31 talks of continued
charge fatigue and 5.41 6th bullet. The player argued that 5.41 does not
apply here because the EHC wasn’t moving freely but rather continuing its
charge.

Thanks for the help.

Scott A McCoppin, AIA
mccoppinarchitecture, pa
704.560.4154
architecture@...




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 1/3/2004 12:33:54 Central Standard Time,
sctrac@... writes:
In a recent game these questions came up:

1. Under the competition battle rules 14.43 states that players define
their troop types at the outset – does this include unit size as well? It
really didn’t matter – it was a curious question that was raised as we
looked down at a line of MI P of 36 elements.


It is my intent that players not deceive their opponents through tricks like
not telling him where one unit ends and another begins, so yes it does include
unit size and yes I will clarify that.


2. 8.3 Target Priorities #2 – who is referred to here as “it�? The
shooting unit or the target unit? In other words is the enemy directly in
front to be the priority target if it is simply in range of the shooter OR
is it stating that the enemy is a priority target only if that enemy is
capable of firing at the shooter’s unit.

"It" is shooters element. To qualify for this priority, the enemy (target)
element must be capable of shooting. A mounted bow element directly in front
of a foot archer element but beyond 160p is not capable of shooting that foot
archer element and therefore this priority does not apply and you move down the
list.


3. MAY a Unit (not an expendable) continue a charge voluntarily in
subsequent bounds or MUST it stop? In this case a unit of EHC JLS charged a
unit of LMI from 3 1/8� – the LMI was in skirmish formation and evaded
successfully. The EHC stopped at 1 1/8� from the LMI after the variables
were taken into account – could it have continued? 5.31 talks of continued
charge fatigue and 5.41 6th bullet. The player argued that 5.41 does not
apply here because the EHC wasn’t moving freely but rather continuing its
charge.
The EHC can continue its charge if it was steady. Steady complete rally at
the end of approaches and then it could declare a charge again on this new
bound. The EHC is rallying in the approach phase due to the 6th bullet of 5.41.
It will accrue additional fatigue according to 5.31 if it charges again in the
bound immediately following the first charge you described above (consecutive
bounds).

Jon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 1/4/2004 10:54:26 Central Standard Time,
sctrac@... writes:
I guess what I am asking here, what would the difference be from a “charge
declaration� vs. a “continued charge� in this case?
Apples and oranges. Charges need to be declared whether continued or not.
Continued charges, as in 5.31, means you charged in consecutive bounds and
incur addtional fatigue.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks.

So in item #3, if I am understanding you correctly, it isn’t a “continued
charge� per se, but rather allowed to charge again in the following bound and,
if necessary, would be required to be prompted, etc.?

I guess what I am asking here, what would the difference be from a “charge
declaration� vs. a “continued charge� in this case? 


Scott A McCoppin, AIA
mccoppinarchitecture, pa
704.560.4154
architecture@...

-----Original Message-----
From: JonCleaves@... [mailto:JonCleaves@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 10:38 AM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Harrythe5@...
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Questions from a recent game....

In a message dated 1/3/2004 12:33:54 Central Standard Time,
sctrac@... writes:
In a recent game these questions came up:

1. Under the competition battle rules 14.43 states that players define
their troop types at the outset – does this include unit size as well? It
really didn’t matter – it was a curious question that was raised as we
looked down at a line of MI P of 36 elements.


It is my intent that players not deceive their opponents through tricks like
not telling him where one unit ends and another begins, so yes it does include
unit size and yes I will clarify that.


2. 8.3 Target Priorities #2 – who is referred to here as “it�? The
shooting unit or the target unit? In other words is the enemy directly in
front to be the priority target if it is simply in range of the shooter OR
is it stating that the enemy is a priority target only if that enemy is
capable of firing at the shooter’s unit.

"It" is shooters element. To qualify for this priority, the enemy (target)
element must be capable of shooting. A mounted bow element directly in front
of a foot archer element but beyond 160p is not capable of shooting that foot
archer element and therefore this priority does not apply and you move down the
list.


3. MAY a Unit (not an expendable) continue a charge voluntarily in
subsequent bounds or MUST it stop? In this case a unit of EHC JLS charged a
unit of LMI from 3 1/8� – the LMI was in skirmish formation and evaded
successfully. The EHC stopped at 1 1/8� from the LMI after the variables
were taken into account – could it have continued? 5.31 talks of continued
charge fatigue and 5.41 6th bullet. The player argued that 5.41 does not
apply here because the EHC wasn’t moving freely but rather continuing its
charge.
The EHC can continue its charge if it was steady. Steady complete rally at
the end of approaches and then it could declare a charge again on this new
bound. The EHC is rallying in the approach phase due to the 6th bullet of 5.41.
It will accrue additional fatigue according to 5.31 if it charges again in the
bound immediately following the first charge you described above (consecutive
bounds).

Jon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
click here
<http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12chr3kdt/M=267637.4116730.5333196.1261774/D=egroupweb/\nS=1705059080:HM/EXP=1073317089/A=1853619/R=0/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqs\no=60178356&partid=4116730>


_____

Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarriorRules/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WarriorRules-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:WarriorRules-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 1/4/2004 18:53:19 Central Standard Time,
sctrac@... writes:
Is there such a thing as a true continued charge in Warrior?
If by 'true continued' you mean that does not have to be declared because it
is 'continued' from a previous bound, then yes. But that is only for
expendables. 16.23, also clarifications.
This example comes to mind: In Bound One, I prompt a HC unit to charge an
enemy LMI unit and it evades and outdistanced the HC – will the HC need to be
prompted to charge again in Bound Two OR can it continue unprompted in the
following bound – i.e. it continues to follow the prompt from Bound 1?
It will need to be prompted again unless there is a reason the HC can declare
an unprompted charge, such as the LMI being unsteady.
AND if the HC does need to be re-prompted – then what is a continued charge?
Continued charge is (5.31) charges on consecutive bounds, thus incurring
extra fatigue.

I can see the use of the word continue or continued seems to bother you and I
will look into what can be done about it.

Jon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 1/4/2004 21:06:17 Central Standard Time,
sctrac@... writes:
Am I missing something that would shed some light on the thought process
here? I certainly am not criticizing, just puzzled.
I think we disagree on what is being simulated.

If the charge 'ends' without contact, the enemy has outdistanced the charger.
The charger is winded and in an extended position and his enemy has eluded
him. If the enemy is disordered or in an otherwise poor situation, the local
unit commander perceives he has an advantage and continues pursuit on his own
(unprompted). If the fresh enemy is staring him down in his overextended
position, just having outdistanced his charge and avoided him, the local
commander
leaves it to the boss to decided to get things going again (prompted).


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I must not be clear in my question.

Is there such a thing as a true continued charge in Warrior? This example comes
to mind:  In Bound One, I prompt a HC unit to charge an enemy LMI unit and it
evades and outdistanced the HC – will the HC need to be prompted to charge
again in Bound Two OR can it continue unprompted in the following bound – i.e.
it continues to follow the prompt from Bound 1?  AND if the HC does need to be
re-prompted – then what is a continued charge?


-----Original Message-----
From: JonCleaves@... [mailto:JonCleaves@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 12:02 PM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Questions from a recent game....

In a message dated 1/4/2004 10:54:26 Central Standard Time,
sctrac@... writes:
I guess what I am asking here, what would the difference be from a “charge
declaration� vs. a “continued charge� in this case?
Apples and oranges. Charges need to be declared whether continued or not.
Continued charges, as in 5.31, means you charged in consecutive bounds and
incur addtional fatigue.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


_____

Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarriorRules/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WarriorRules-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:WarriorRules-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 1/5/2004 00:34:02 Central Standard Time,
leigh_dunn2003@... writes:
In 7th Ed there was a requirement to have an easily identifiable
command element with each unit. When confronted with Scott's
situation, I would ask my opponent to indicate the command element
for each unit. It then allows you to make your own judgement on
unit boundaries etc so that you could artifically line up your own
units. I couldn't find a similar entry in Warrior but perhaps this
could be a clarification to the definition of a unit.
It isn't in Warrior, because I didn't feel right telling a guy how to model
his figures/units. I'll have to think on how best to clarify my intent here.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It isn’t the wording, though it could be clearer or at least a paragraph
explaining this process could be added, it is the fact that the process seems
counter-intuitive. 

If I am a commander of a unit and I was ordered to attack the enemy unit in
front of me, I wouldn’t stop my advance because an arbitrary time limit has
expired.  I am assuming this is an attempt to remove the effects of the Mile
High General in miniatures battles, but it does not make sense in this
instance.  If I was a general and I had to keep giving the same order every
fifteen minutes to the same unit commander just because every fifteen minutes he
still had not accomplished his task, I would probably look around fairly quickly
for his replacement .

When shock cavalry through the ages wished to close with the enemy, they trotted
within true charge reach and galloped the remaining “danger� zone.  That
zone increased with the effectiveness of the weapons used at the time and with
the target, so exhaustion would not have been a factor – unless the enemy was
as fast or faster than you. 

Am I missing something that would shed some light on the thought process here? 
I certainly am not criticizing, just puzzled.

Thanks.


Scott A McCoppin, AIA
mccoppinarchitecture, pa
704.560.4154
architecture@...

-----Original Message-----
From: JonCleaves@... [mailto:JonCleaves@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 8:07 PM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Questions from a recent game....

In a message dated 1/4/2004 18:53:19 Central Standard Time,
sctrac@... writes:
Is there such a thing as a true continued charge in Warrior?
If by 'true continued' you mean that does not have to be declared because it
is 'continued' from a previous bound, then yes. But that is only for
expendables. 16.23, also clarifications.
This example comes to mind: In Bound One, I prompt a HC unit to charge an
enemy LMI unit and it evades and outdistanced the HC – will the HC need to be
prompted to charge again in Bound Two OR can it continue unprompted in the
following bound – i.e. it continues to follow the prompt from Bound 1?
It will need to be prompted again unless there is a reason the HC can declare
an unprompted charge, such as the LMI being unsteady.
AND if the HC does need to be re-prompted – then what is a continued charge?
Continued charge is (5.31) charges on consecutive bounds, thus incurring
extra fatigue.

I can see the use of the word continue or continued seems to bother you and I
will look into what can be done about it.

Jon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


_____

Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarriorRules/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WarriorRules-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:WarriorRules-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:

>
>
> It is my intent that players not deceive their opponents through
tricks like
> not telling him where one unit ends and another begins, so yes it
does include
> unit size and yes I will clarify that.



> In 7th Ed there was a requirement to have an easily identifiable
command element with each unit. When confronted with Scott's
situation, I would ask my opponent to indicate the command element
for each unit. It then allows you to make your own judgement on
unit boundaries etc so that you could artifically line up your own
units. I couldn't find a similar entry in Warrior but perhaps this
could be a clarification to the definition of a unit.

Regards

Leigh Dunn>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the insight.

Scott A McCoppin, AIA
mccoppinarchitecture, pa
704.560.4154
architecture@...

-----Original Message-----
From: JonCleaves@... [mailto:JonCleaves@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 11:28 PM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Questions from a recent game....

In a message dated 1/4/2004 21:06:17 Central Standard Time,
sctrac@... writes:
Am I missing something that would shed some light on the thought process
here? I certainly am not criticizing, just puzzled.
I think we disagree on what is being simulated.

If the charge 'ends' without contact, the enemy has outdistanced the
charger.
The charger is winded and in an extended position and his enemy has eluded
him. If the enemy is disordered or in an otherwise poor situation, the
local
unit commander perceives he has an advantage and continues pursuit on his
own
(unprompted). If the fresh enemy is staring him down in his overextended
position, just having outdistanced his charge and avoided him, the local
commander
leaves it to the boss to decided to get things going again (prompted).


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
click here
<http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12c57ss8c/M=267637.4116730.5333196.1261774/D=egroup
web/S=1705059080:HM/EXP=1073363314/A=1853618/R=0/*http://www.netflix.com/Def
ault?mqso=60178338&partid=4116730>


_____

Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarriorRules/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WarriorRules-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:WarriorRules-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]