Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

I was perusing the lists last night to decide which
army would be nice to paint and play. I like the idea
of Burgundian Ord, as it sounds and looks like one
hell of the challenge to play. I'm still looking at
Samurai as well.

While looking, and this may be old ground, I noticed
that list 263 Yuan have Hanchun spear/bowmen but no
troop type. Perhaps MI or LMI?

Then I noticed 255 Medieval Vietnamese. Holy cow! 4
El with 6 w/JLS or B? Talk about major impact. Will
a professor of El please explain to me how this would
work? 2E of El fighting 16 Rg LMI J/sh:
10El @2 +2 impet charge +1 charge = 40casualties
2 w/jls @2 +1 JLS +3 charge & impet? = 8

LMI return with 12 @1 +2 jls = 30

LMI take 48 or 3cpf and more
El take 30 or 3 cpf
both are disordered the lmi are tired recoiled and
the El are tired follow up.

Did I do this right?

If so, then the other 4 dudes on the El need to have B
and shoot prep, then shoot again for charge support.
SWEET! That adds 8@2 or 1 CPF in prep shoot and 8@0
for 8 more in HTH; thus 48+8 support shoot =
56...still only 3 CPF, but now LMI are tire. If the
support shoot rolls up 1, then they double the CPF
taken and the LMI rout.

Hope I'm doing this right. Does brush disorder El?

boyd


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[Patrick Byrne]

One thing wrong with your assumptions here, Elephants are incapable of
charging impetuously (6.164).

So now EL's are 10@3 (2+1)=25 + 2@3=5 Total 30.

JLS men only take 1 CPF whist EL's take 3. EL's Disordered and JLS men are
ready to carve up dinner!


You did have me wondering for a second why I never charge with my EL's. It
is usually because of the above mathe or because I am facing B Skirmishers.

-PB



> From: Wanax Andron <vercengetorix@...>
> Reply-To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 05:06:57 -0700 (PDT)
> To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WarriorRules] rambling mumbler
>
> I was perusing the lists last night to decide which
> army would be nice to paint and play. I like the idea
> of Burgundian Ord, as it sounds and looks like one
> hell of the challenge to play. I'm still looking at
> Samurai as well.
>
> While looking, and this may be old ground, I noticed
> that list 263 Yuan have Hanchun spear/bowmen but no
> troop type. Perhaps MI or LMI?
>
> Then I noticed 255 Medieval Vietnamese. Holy cow! 4
> El with 6 w/JLS or B? Talk about major impact. Will
> a professor of El please explain to me how this would
> work? 2E of El fighting 16 Rg LMI J/sh:
> 10El @2 +2 impet charge +1 charge = 40casualties
> 2 w/jls @2 +1 JLS +3 charge & impet? = 8
>
> LMI return with 12 @1 +2 jls = 30
>
> LMI take 48 or 3cpf and more
> El take 30 or 3 cpf
> both are disordered the lmi are tired recoiled and
> the El are tired follow up.
>
> Did I do this right?
>
> If so, then the other 4 dudes on the El need to have B
> and shoot prep, then shoot again for charge support.
> SWEET! That adds 8@2 or 1 CPF in prep shoot and 8@0
> for 8 more in HTH; thus 48+8 support shoot =
> 56...still only 3 CPF, but now LMI are tire. If the
> support shoot rolls up 1, then they double the CPF
> taken and the LMI rout.
>
> Hope I'm doing this right. Does brush disorder El?
>
> boyd
>
>
> =====
> Wake up and smell the Assyrians
>
> __________________________________________________
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>

[scott holder]

While looking, and this may be old ground, I noticed
that list 263 Yuan have Hanchun spear/bowmen but no
troop type. Perhaps MI or LMI?

>MI. Look for update in next clarification sheet which will be in the
files section of the egroup and on www.fourhorsemenenterprises.com.

Scott
List Ho

[Ewan McNay]

> Then I noticed 255 Medieval Vietnamese. Holy cow! 4
> El with 6 w/JLS or B? Talk about major impact. Will
> a professor of El please explain to me how this would
> work? 2E of El fighting 16 Rg LMI J/sh:

Well, you picked a bad target . Elephants against JLS troops is a bad
idea.. but then you also omitted the waver test for the LMI.

> 10El @2 +2 impet charge +1 charge = 40casualties

Impetuosity does not apply to elephants. So, 10@3 unless the foot
failed their waver - in which case the foot are utter toast.

> 2 w/jls @2 +1 JLS +3 charge & impet? = 8

And the crew count neither charging nor impetuosity, so total of 12@3 =
30.

Result is a stand, with the elphants now being tired and disordered.

On the other hand, if the target had some less hostile weapon such as
LTS or Pike, you'd be well off, because in the second round all crew
fight, so you now have 11 figures fighting per frontage.

> Did I do this right?

No .

> If so, then the other 4 dudes on the El need to have B
> and shoot prep, then shoot again for charge support.
> SWEET! That adds 8@2 or 1 CPF in prep shoot and 8@0
> for 8 more in HTH; thus 48+8 support shoot =
> 56...still only 3 CPF, but now LMI are tire. If the
> support shoot rolls up 1, then they double the CPF
> taken and the LMI rout.

Actually one of the crew's bowfire will be doubled.

> Hope I'm doing this right. Does brush disorder El?

Yes. They'd be just *too* super otherwise!

[scott holder]

> Then I noticed 255 Medieval Vietnamese. Holy cow! 4
> El with 6 w/JLS or B? Talk about major impact. Will
> a professor of El please explain to me how this would
> work? 2E of El fighting 16 Rg LMI J/sh:

Well, you picked a bad target . Elephants against JLS troops is a bad
idea.. but then you also omitted the waver test for the LMI.

>The idea for the El player is to have everybody in the crew with a B,
move to 80p of the loose order foot, then blast them into a prep
shooting waver test. I've also seen it where said El player actually
stands to receive the charge in order to support shoot coming in.
Personally, I'd still prefer the charge, particularly against Irr JLS
loose people to take the bite off possible impetuousness (assuming
opponent is smart enough to have high morale Irr JLS dooods against your
elephants which you, trying to be smart enough, wants to avoid, and so
goes the tactical dance).

>I might add that all of these basic questions can be answered by
*reading the rules*, heh heh heh.

Scott
Reading Ho

[Ewan McNay]

"Holder, Scott " wrote:
> >The idea for the El player is to have everybody in the crew with a B,
> move to 80p of the loose order foot, then blast them into a prep
> shooting waver test. I've also seen it where said El player actually
> stands to receive the charge in order to support shoot coming in.

Against Reg foot, *maybe*, but even then not likely. But against Irreg
foot, even dice on prep shooting gives them a halt-or-waver; neither
choice is good, but essentially they *have* to waver because otherwise
you just keep shooting them until tired, *then* charge, and now they're
again toast (10@3 vs 9@2 on contact, and it only gets worse after that
for the foot..)

> >I might add that all of these basic questions can be answered by
> *reading the rules*, heh heh heh.

Yep.

[Patrick Byrne]

So what do you do if you have inferior El's, IE. those with only 3 crew
armed w/ B (like my Yuan Mongol H&C list #124).

What is the good tactic there?


And with the Pachyderm's movement capability, what keeps the opponent from
lining up who he wants against them? (I do understand Ambush is one way)
-PB


> From: Ewan <ewan.mcnay@...>
> Reply-To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 09:51:05 -0400
> To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] rambling mumbler
>
> "Holder, Scott " wrote:
>>> The idea for the El player is to have everybody in the crew with a B,
>> move to 80p of the loose order foot, then blast them into a prep
>> shooting waver test. I've also seen it where said El player actually
>> stands to receive the charge in order to support shoot coming in.
>
> Against Reg foot, *maybe*, but even then not likely. But against Irreg
> foot, even dice on prep shooting gives them a halt-or-waver; neither
> choice is good, but essentially they *have* to waver because otherwise
> you just keep shooting them until tired, *then* charge, and now they're
> again toast (10@3 vs 9@2 on contact, and it only gets worse after that
> for the foot..)
>
>>> I might add that all of these basic questions can be answered by
>> *reading the rules*, heh heh heh.
>
> Yep.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

[Ewan McNay]

Patrick wrote:
>
> So what do you do if you have inferior El's, IE. those with only 3 crew
> armed w/ B (like my Yuan Mongol H&C list #124).
>
> What is the good tactic there?
>
> And with the Pachyderm's movement capability, what keeps the opponent from
> lining up who he wants against them? (I do understand Ambush is one way)

Y'know, If I keep giving out tactical advice, how am I supposed to have
any advantage? :)

El w/ 3B are total cav killers, so that's where you want them. They're
not bad against foot, but you lose their big advantage. They're ideal
support for missile foot, as they can disorder the opponent *before*
being shot, which means a waver test for a disordering shot. Put them
between blocks of such foot and you'll just sweep mounted opponents
away. Yuans do this well, which is an excellent tactic against their
historical opponents.

The second Q might also apply to Yuan Els. Esentially, this is the
question 'how do I win games' b/c getting the matchups you want while
denying the oppo theirs is a huge part of winning - see previous post.
But, for Els in particular, they can afford to hang back a little until
the battlelines are a tad fixed, then march to where they're desired
once your foot have pinned the enemy. If you have a lot of pachyderms,
they work well in units of three - the wheel-an-inch-and-expand trick is
great here.

I personally prefer pike-armed elephants. They dislike being charged by
impetuous JLS foot, but anything else they will happily fight - even a
pike block in 4 ranks (do the math).

Personally I think El with 3B armed crew are about as good as El's get
without escorts.


-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick [mailto:cuan@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 9:12 AM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] rambling mumbler


So what do you do if you have inferior El's, IE. those with only 3 crew
armed w/ B (like my Yuan Mongol H&C list #124).

What is the good tactic there?


And with the Pachyderm's movement capability, what keeps the opponent from
lining up who he wants against them? (I do understand Ambush is one way)
-PB


> From: Ewan <ewan.mcnay@...>
> Reply-To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 09:51:05 -0400
> To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] rambling mumbler
>
> "Holder, Scott " wrote:
>>> The idea for the El player is to have everybody in the crew with a B,
>> move to 80p of the loose order foot, then blast them into a prep
>> shooting waver test. I've also seen it where said El player actually
>> stands to receive the charge in order to support shoot coming in.
>
> Against Reg foot, *maybe*, but even then not likely. But against Irreg
> foot, even dice on prep shooting gives them a halt-or-waver; neither
> choice is good, but essentially they *have* to waver because otherwise
> you just keep shooting them until tired, *then* charge, and now they're
> again toast (10@3 vs 9@2 on contact, and it only gets worse after that
> for the foot..)
>
>>> I might add that all of these basic questions can be answered by
>> *reading the rules*, heh heh heh.
>
> Yep.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Damn! Ok, so everyone gets a Bow on the Elephant,
stand back and shoot, let the Reg D LMI J/sh take the
charge :)

Since elephants can't be impetouos, perhaps we need a
rules change for "tempestuous" elephants get +2 for
charging if shot for at least 1 cpf in prep shoots ;^D

boyd

--- Patrick <cuan@...> wrote:
> One thing wrong with your assumptions here,
> Elephants are incapable of
> charging impetuously (6.164).
>
> So now EL's are 10@3 (2+1)=25 + 2@3=5 Total 30.
>
> JLS men only take 1 CPF whist EL's take 3. EL's
> Disordered and JLS men are
> ready to carve up dinner!
>
>
> You did have me wondering for a second why I never
> charge with my EL's. It
> is usually because of the above mathe or because I
> am facing B Skirmishers.
>
> -PB
>
>
>
> > From: Wanax Andron <vercengetorix@...>
> > Reply-To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 05:06:57 -0700 (PDT)
> > To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [WarriorRules] rambling mumbler
> >
> > I was perusing the lists last night to decide
> which
> > army would be nice to paint and play. I like the
> idea
> > of Burgundian Ord, as it sounds and looks like one
> > hell of the challenge to play. I'm still looking
> at
> > Samurai as well.
> >
> > While looking, and this may be old ground, I
> noticed
> > that list 263 Yuan have Hanchun spear/bowmen but
> no
> > troop type. Perhaps MI or LMI?
> >
> > Then I noticed 255 Medieval Vietnamese. Holy cow!
> 4
> > El with 6 w/JLS or B? Talk about major impact.
> Will
> > a professor of El please explain to me how this
> would
> > work? 2E of El fighting 16 Rg LMI J/sh:
> > 10El @2 +2 impet charge +1 charge = 40casualties
> > 2 w/jls @2 +1 JLS +3 charge & impet? = 8
> >
> > LMI return with 12 @1 +2 jls = 30
> >
> > LMI take 48 or 3cpf and more
> > El take 30 or 3 cpf
> > both are disordered the lmi are tired recoiled
> and
> > the El are tired follow up.
> >
> > Did I do this right?
> >
> > If so, then the other 4 dudes on the El need to
> have B
> > and shoot prep, then shoot again for charge
> support.
> > SWEET! That adds 8@2 or 1 CPF in prep shoot and
> 8@0
> > for 8 more in HTH; thus 48+8 support shoot =
> > 56...still only 3 CPF, but now LMI are tire. If
> the
> > support shoot rolls up 1, then they double the CPF
> > taken and the LMI rout.
> >
> > Hope I'm doing this right. Does brush disorder
> El?
> >
> > boyd
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Wake up and smell the Assyrians
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th!
> > http://shopping.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>


=====
Wake up and smell the Assyrians

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th!
http://shopping.yahoo.com

--- Ewan <ewan.mcnay@...> wrote:
> > Then I noticed 255 Medieval Vietnamese. Holy cow!
> 4
> > El with 6 w/JLS or B? Talk about major impact.
> Will
> > a professor of El please explain to me how this
> would
> > work? 2E of El fighting 16 Rg LMI J/sh:
>
> Well, you picked a bad target . Elephants against
> JLS troops is a bad
> idea.. but then you also omitted the waver test for
> the LMI.

I picked the worst El target to examin it all with. I
forgot about the LMI waver...

>
> > 10El @2 +2 impet charge +1 charge = 40casualties
>
> Impetuosity does not apply to elephants. So, 10@3
> unless the foot
> failed their waver - in which case the foot are
> utter toast.
>
> > 2 w/jls @2 +1 JLS +3 charge & impet? = 8
>
> And the crew count neither charging nor impetuosity,
> so total of 12@3 =
> 30.

Hey, f*ck painting an Elephant army then...

>
> Result is a stand, with the elphants now being tired
> and disordered.

doh!


>
> No .

Noticed ;D

> Actually one of the crew's bowfire will be doubled.

Why? I don't understand. Reference a rule number for
me. I dearly want to remember all this El and Ch
shit.

>> Hope I'm doing this right. Does brush disorder
> El?
>
> Yes. They'd be just *too* super otherwise!

Well, perhaps I'll just forget the vietcong.
boyd



=====
Wake up and smell the Assyrians

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Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th!
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> > >I might add that all of these basic questions can
> be answered by
> > *reading the rules*, heh heh heh.
>
> Yep.

Of course no one likes a smartass, much less two :)

I am reading the rules. Doesn't mean I'm in total
comprehension. I'm taking it one aspect at a time.
You know, between all the *life* crap I got to do in
order to survive physically and maintain a family.

boyd



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[joncleaves]

You know I went to a LOT of trouble writing rule 13.0 so you could just get
smart about elephants all at once....

[scott holder]

Of course no one likes a smartass, much less two :)

>As List Ho, I have some right to purloin the "smartass" job:):)

I am reading the rules. Doesn't mean I'm in total
comprehension. I'm taking it one aspect at a time.
You know, between all the *life* crap I got to do in
order to survive physically and maintain a family.

>Priorities obviously in need of rearrangement:):)

Scott
Priority Ho

--- JonCleaves@... wrote:
> You know I went to a LOT of trouble writing rule
> 13.0 so you could just get smart about elephants all
> at once....

I see that. Yet I'm not there yet in my studies.
Guess I'll skip ahead, then return with elephant
questions. :)

boyd



=====
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