Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[John Murphy]

Close-order foot armed with crossbows with pavises in the front rank

Per the rules (7.2) count as in cover when shot at unless from their
flank or rear

Per the same rules count as shielded as well if they do not
themselves shoot

But... in 7.1 (shields) it says troops in cover never count as
shieldless to shooting

So three questions...

1a&b) Do enemies shooting at pavisier crossbows, not from the flank
or rear, get the -2 in cover factor, +X shieldless factor, or both,
when said pavisier crossbows are themselves shooting or not shooting?

2) Do said pavisier crossbows (if not Irr A) waver as counting
shieldless to preperatory shooting if they receive 2 CPF?

3a&b) Generically, if the target of non-arty/hg/etc shooting lacks
shields but is cover (say for terrain reasons) do their enemies get
the +X for shieldless, and if close or loose non-Irr-A foot must
they waver for 2 CPF from prep?

[joncleaves]

Close order CB with pavise:>
>Per the same rules count as shielded as well if they do not
>themselves shoot>>

I think you are missing a clarification here. The clarifications says:

7.2 (Pg 61) Delete fourth sentence and replace with: "A figure with a missile
weapon that requires two hands (B, LB, CB, SS, HG) and equipped with a pavise
counts as in cover but not shielded when shooting, and as both when not shooting
and not in hand to hand."

>
>But... in 7.1 (shields) it says troops in cover never count as
>shieldless to shooting>>

Yes, but also makes a specific exception for pavises.


>1a&b) Do enemies shooting at pavisier crossbows, not from the flank
>or rear, get the -2 in cover factor, +X shieldless factor, or both,
>when said pavisier crossbows are themselves shooting or not shooting?>>

See above clarification. When shooting, cover but not shielded. When not
shooting, both.


>
>2) Do said pavisier crossbows (if not Irr A) waver as counting
>shieldless to preperatory shooting if they receive 2 CPF?>>

If they were shooting, yes.

>
>3a&b) Generically, if the target of non-arty/hg/etc shooting lacks
>shields but is cover (say for terrain reasons) do their enemies get
>the +X for shieldless, and if close or loose non-Irr-A foot must
>they waver for 2 CPF from prep?>>

Generically, they count shielded (which means for all purposes unless
specifically excepted) due to the cover as you noted above.

Jon

[John Murphy]

Got it Jon, thanks.

I have the mentioned clarification, but it only addresses the extra
weapons (ie besides crossbows and handguns).

The bullet in 7.1 stating troops in cover (which includes crossbows
etc with pavises even when shooting) never count shieldless to
shooting is still a cause for conflict unless one follows the whole
reference to 7.4 - it is kind of the same problem as the follow-up
+1 where a bullet list is given and the _real_ rule appears
elsewhere and reads differently.

It was there, just took the next level of effort / being pointed out
to find it.

But again thanks your answer therefore clears this right up.

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> Close order CB with pavise:>
> >Per the same rules count as shielded as well if they do not
> >themselves shoot>>
>
> I think you are missing a clarification here. The clarifications
says:
>
> 7.2 (Pg 61) Delete fourth sentence and replace with: "A figure
with a missile weapon that requires two hands (B, LB, CB, SS, HG)
and equipped with a pavise counts as in cover but not shielded when
shooting, and as both when not shooting and not in hand to hand."
>
> >
> >But... in 7.1 (shields) it says troops in cover never count as
> >shieldless to shooting>>
>
> Yes, but also makes a specific exception for pavises.
>
>
> >1a&b) Do enemies shooting at pavisier crossbows, not from the
flank
> >or rear, get the -2 in cover factor, +X shieldless factor, or
both,
> >when said pavisier crossbows are themselves shooting or not
shooting?>>
>
> See above clarification. When shooting, cover but not shielded.
When not shooting, both.
>
>
> >
> >2) Do said pavisier crossbows (if not Irr A) waver as counting
> >shieldless to preperatory shooting if they receive 2 CPF?>>
>
> If they were shooting, yes.
>
> >
> >3a&b) Generically, if the target of non-arty/hg/etc shooting
lacks
> >shields but is cover (say for terrain reasons) do their enemies
get
> >the +X for shieldless, and if close or loose non-Irr-A foot must
> >they waver for 2 CPF from prep?>>
>
> Generically, they count shielded (which means for all purposes
unless specifically excepted) due to the cover as you noted above.
>
> Jon

[joncleaves]

>
>The bullet in 7.1 stating troops in cover (which includes crossbows
>etc with pavises even when shooting) never count shieldless to
>shooting is still a cause for conflict unless one follows the whole
>reference to 7.4>>

Good catch. Both places should make reference to the exception and I will fix
it.

Jon