Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

Hi,

I have two questions, one re a list and one rules. Hope I've not
missed these in previous posts.

First the easy one.

Marion Roman List Spanish.

In every relevant list apart from Marian Roman,
it appears that Spanish Scutarii armed with HTW also have the
option of being double armed with Jls. Of course these other
lists are in Classical Warrior, which Imperial Warrior preceded.
Is this just a "fix" that hasn't been caught up with yet,
or is it intended?

Surprise caused by troops emerging from cover.

This is something that came out of a recent competition.
I think I'm correct in saying that most of us had not seen it
interpreted in this way before, but I can see where it's coming
from if you read the rules literally.

The consensus, as far as I'm aware, has been that if you are
more than 240 paces from an area of cover that you cannot be
subject to surprise. This recent interpretation however states
that "emerging" is the key part, and that the act of emerging
involves all movement for the turn by the unit emerging.
Therefore the unit has not ceased "emerging" until it has
completed its movement, therefore it's ability to cause
surprise does not cease at the edge of the cover, but when
it has reached the end of its move.

To put this into concrete terms:
I have a unit 300 paces from the edge of cover, which is behind
the flank of my unit.
A unit of enemy troops (LI, LMI, LHI probably) is just inside
this cover, and in its move approaches from out of the cover.
It starts behind my units flank, and after moving ends C230
paces away, and behind my flank. It was a previously unknown
enemy that "emerged" this turn, and it's
"emerging" has taken
it to within 240 paces and behind the flank of my unit,
therefore my unit must test for surprise.

While this is bad enough, what if the "ambushers" were
regulars, that were able to do a double expansion out of the
cover, potentially units up to some 365 paces from the edge
of the cover may have to test! And what about light
cavalry riding out from a wood along a road?

Perhaps this is the way the rule was always meant to work,
and I'm the first to agree that being able to micro
measure/calculate things with absolute certainty is rather
artificial (whose to say that mob of levee half a mile away
wouldn't panic), however this doesn't seem to me to be in
keeping with the spirit of the rule. If you wander within
240 paces of un-scouted terrain then you're asking for
trouble, but I've always thought the key was the enemy first
becoming visible at the edge of the cover?

Ian Poade.

[joncleaves]

Ian

I'll let Scott handle the list rule question.

As for:

<<I have a unit 300 paces from the edge of cover, which is behind
the flank of my unit.
A unit of enemy troops (LI, LMI, LHI probably) is just inside
this cover, and in its move approaches from out of the cover.
It starts behind my units flank, and after moving ends C230
paces away, and behind my flank. It was a previously unknown
enemy that "emerged" this turn, and it's
"emerging" has taken
it to within 240 paces and behind the flank of my unit,
therefore my unit must test for surprise.>>

Please see the text following the bulleted list in 5.52, specifically that after
the paragraph header "Surprise:"
What you are looking for is there. Clearly any test is taken only at the moment
the ambusher emreges and not after any addiotnal movement is complete. If the
ambusher is not within 240p at the moment it emerges, it is not causing a test.
This rule is written this way to specifically preclude the kind of behavior you
were concerned about in your mail.

Jon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Poade" <IANPOADE@a...> wrote:

>
> First the easy one.
>
> Marion Roman List Spanish.
>
> In every relevant list apart from Marian Roman,
> it appears that Spanish Scutarii armed with HTW also have the
> option of being double armed with Jls. Of course these other
> lists are in Classical Warrior, which Imperial Warrior preceded.
> Is this just a "fix" that hasn't been caught up with yet,
> or is it intended?
>

Hi Ian:

I asked essentially this questions back several weeks ago, and never
got an answer. I assumed it was either to rudimentary to merit an
answer, or that Scott has been too busy with some of the recent HMGS
shenanigans.

Maybe this time we'll hear something. Thanks for asking - it makes me
feel less foolish for asking the same thing myself.

[joncleaves]

Peter, I also want the answer and I 'work here'...lol Scott has been extremely
busy - just give him time.

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Celella <pcelella@...>
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:08:39 -0000
Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: Re Rules Qustion and IW List Question


--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Poade" <IANPOADE@a...> wrote:

>
> First the easy one.
>
> Marion Roman List Spanish.
>
> In every relevant list apart from Marian Roman,
> it appears that Spanish Scutarii armed with HTW also have the
> option of being double armed with Jls. Of course these other
> lists are in Classical Warrior, which Imperial Warrior preceded.
> Is this just a "fix" that hasn't been caught up with yet,
> or is it intended?
>

Hi Ian:

I asked essentially this questions back several weeks ago, and never
got an answer. I assumed it was either to rudimentary to merit an
answer, or that Scott has been too busy with some of the recent HMGS
shenanigans.

Maybe this time we'll hear something. Thanks for asking - it makes me
feel less foolish for asking the same thing myself.







Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> Peter, I also want the answer and I 'work here'...lol Scott has
been extremely busy - just give him time.
>

No problem Jon - I completely understand. Sorry if I sounded
impatient. I just wanted to verify that I wasn't asking too silly of a
question. Hope I haven't offended anyone.

Thanks

[joncleaves]

No silly questions, here. Just silly subjects!...lol

And this is not one of them....

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Celella <pcelella@...>
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:22:59 -0000
Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: Re Rules Qustion and IW List Question


--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> Peter, I also want the answer and I 'work here'...lol Scott has
been extremely busy - just give him time.
>

No problem Jon - I completely understand. Sorry if I sounded
impatient. I just wanted to verify that I wasn't asking too silly of a
question. Hope I haven't offended anyone.

Thanks






Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Bill Low]

On the list question in Ian's post: Spanish Scutarii in Marian Roman
(IW#10) will be treated the same as comparable (i.e., non-allied)
troops in Polybian Roman (CW#33). This is a catch-up; errata will be
posted shortly. (Thanks, Ian, for bringing this to our attention!)

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Poade" <IANPOADE@a...>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have two questions, one re a list and one rules. Hope I've not
> missed these in previous posts.
>
> First the easy one.
>
> Marion Roman List Spanish.
>
> In every relevant list apart from Marian Roman,
> it appears that Spanish Scutarii armed with HTW also have the
> option of being double armed with Jls. Of course these other
> lists are in Classical Warrior, which Imperial Warrior preceded.
> Is this just a "fix" that hasn't been caught up with yet,
> or is it intended?
>
> Surprise caused by troops emerging from cover.
>
> This is something that came out of a recent competition.
> I think I'm correct in saying that most of us had not seen it
> interpreted in this way before, but I can see where it's coming
> from if you read the rules literally.
>
> The consensus, as far as I'm aware, has been that if you are
> more than 240 paces from an area of cover that you cannot be
> subject to surprise. This recent interpretation however states
> that "emerging" is the key part, and that the act of emerging
> involves all movement for the turn by the unit emerging.
> Therefore the unit has not ceased "emerging" until it has
> completed its movement, therefore it's ability to cause
> surprise does not cease at the edge of the cover, but when
> it has reached the end of its move.
>
> To put this into concrete terms:
> I have a unit 300 paces from the edge of cover, which is behind
> the flank of my unit.
> A unit of enemy troops (LI, LMI, LHI probably) is just inside
> this cover, and in its move approaches from out of the cover.
> It starts behind my units flank, and after moving ends C230
> paces away, and behind my flank. It was a previously unknown
> enemy that "emerged" this turn, and it's
> "emerging" has taken
> it to within 240 paces and behind the flank of my unit,
> therefore my unit must test for surprise.
>
> While this is bad enough, what if the "ambushers" were
> regulars, that were able to do a double expansion out of the
> cover, potentially units up to some 365 paces from the edge
> of the cover may have to test! And what about light
> cavalry riding out from a wood along a road?
>
> Perhaps this is the way the rule was always meant to work,
> and I'm the first to agree that being able to micro
> measure/calculate things with absolute certainty is rather
> artificial (whose to say that mob of levee half a mile away
> wouldn't panic), however this doesn't seem to me to be in
> keeping with the spirit of the rule. If you wander within
> 240 paces of un-scouted terrain then you're asking for
> trouble, but I've always thought the key was the enemy first
> becoming visible at the edge of the cover?
>
> Ian Poade.