Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[John Murphy]

#1 (Just being sure) all the talk about LMI B skirmishers in front of
cav makes me ask

the rules state (clearly I think) that skirmishers MUST EVADE if
charged, meaning no support shot to rear on foot AND no shields (and no
casualties inflicted) when they get smacked in the butt
the MUST EVADE thing makes foot skirmishing in the vicinity of enemy
mounted a bit risky since even the most wonderful foot can't stand to
receive

#2 is the one that really has me wondering though
The whole 2 element gap for a charge thing.

While I understand the intention of the rule I think, and I think most
folks agree, that it does have a few less than desirable (?) side
effects to be exploited. But having made that statement (and to aid in
my playing of the game) let me be certain that I have the rule down pat.

The "gap" is defined as the closest point between two objects so say in
ASCII vision

AAAA BBBB
AAAA CCCC BBBB
CCCC

Three blocks facing the same direction with a couple millimeters between
A-C and C-B and C's front rank lined up with A & B's rear rank

Can C be charged (from the front, into the "gap" between A & B front
ranks) by an enemy if A & B are not in hth from a previous bound?
In effect, does A-B count as a gap or do only A-C and B-C (being
"closer") count as gaps?
If the latter, can this allow, if C is farther back, an otherwise
capable enemy to charge A or B in the interior flank since the gap is
still measured to C?

What about the following case

AAAA
AAAA
BB
BB
BB
BB

Two units facing outward at a right angle. Forgive the ASCII vision on
this one, but assume the gap between their inner rear corners makes a 45
degree angle with their fronts.

Less than 2 elements distance between inner rear corners.

Where is the gap measured? I presume between said inner rear corners
being the closest points?
If there is room to fit on the interior flank of A or B without
extending past the inner rear corner, then can an otherwise capable
flank charge be made since this is not entering the "nearest points"
gap?
If there is insufficient room to fit without extending past the inner
rear corner then does this still count as a "gap" that can't be charged
into?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ewan McNay]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "John Murphy" <jjmurphy@s...>
wrote:
> #1 (Just being sure) all the talk about LMI B skirmishers in front
of
> cav makes me ask
>
> the rules state (clearly I think) that skirmishers MUST EVADE if
> charged, meaning no support shot to rear on foot AND no shields (and
no
> casualties inflicted) when they get smacked in the butt
> the MUST EVADE thing makes foot skirmishing in the vicinity of enemy
> mounted a bit risky since even the most wonderful foot can't stand
to
> receive

Correct. That was why we were discussing going into skirmish only as
part of a counter, when it would be also possible to move back out of
charge range. You are totally correct that you do not want to do this
if you can still be charged .


> #2 is the one that really has me wondering though
> The whole 2 element gap for a charge thing.

/*Preparing to take flak for essaying an answer to a rules
question...*/

> The "gap" is defined as the closest point between two objects so say
in
> ASCII vision
>
> AAAA BBBB
> AAAA CCCC BBBB
> CCCC
>
> Three blocks facing the same direction with a couple millimeters
between
> A-C and C-B and C's front rank lined up with A & B's rear rank
>
> Can C be charged (from the front, into the "gap" between A & B front
> ranks) by an enemy if A & B are not in hth from a previous bound?
> In effect, does A-B count as a gap or do only A-C and B-C (being
> "closer") count as gaps?

Assuming that A-C are all one element wide, then C may not be charged.

> If the latter, can this allow, if C is farther back, an otherwise
> capable enemy to charge A or B in the interior flank since the gap
is
> still measured to C?

No.

But note again that in the LMI B example we have been using, the LMI B
are two elements wide, hence would leave at least a two-element gap.

On a sixteenth hand, note that their having countered back to leave
such a gap would not prevent them from having a support shot on the
flank of any cav coming into the gap just left. And so the dance goes
on .

> What about the following case
>
> AAAA
> AAAA
> BB
> BB
> BB
> BB
>
> Two units facing outward at a right angle. Forgive the ASCII vision
on
> this one, but assume the gap between their inner rear corners makes
a 45
> degree angle with their fronts.
>
> Less than 2 elements distance between inner rear corners.
>
> Where is the gap measured? I presume between said inner rear corners
> being the closest points?
> If there is room to fit on the interior flank of A or B without
> extending past the inner rear corner, then can an otherwise capable
> flank charge be made since this is not entering the "nearest points"
> gap?
> If there is insufficient room to fit without extending past the
inner
> rear corner then does this still count as a "gap" that can't be
charged
> into?

I don't think that I really understand this question.

[joncleaves]

>

>
> The "gap" is defined as the closest point between two objects so say in
> ASCII vision
>
> AAAA BBBB
> AAAA CCCC BBBB
> CCCC
>
> Three blocks facing the same direction with a couple millimeters between
> A-C and C-B and C's front rank lined up with A & B's rear rank
>
> Can C be charged (from the front, into the "gap" between A & B front
> ranks) by an enemy if A & B are not in hth from a previous bound?>>

It seems so, if C is an element wide then the gap is < 2E wide, so C can't be
charged.

<<can this allow, if C is farther back, an otherwise
> capable enemy to charge A or B in the interior flank since the gap is
> still measured to C?>>

Don't understand the question, I'm afraid.

> What about the following case
>
> AAAA
> AAAA
> BB
> BB
> BB
> BB
>
> Two units facing outward at a right angle. Forgive the ASCII vision on
> this one, but assume the gap between their inner rear corners makes a 45
> degree angle with their fronts.
>
> Less than 2 elements distance between inner rear corners.
>
> If there is room to fit on the interior flank of A or B without
> extending past the inner rear corner, then can an otherwise capable
> flank charge be made since this is not entering the "nearest points"
> gap?>>

Yes.

Remember that 'fit' and charging THROUGH a gap at a target BEYOND (the whole
point of 6.53) are separate issues. Don't let anyone mix them up on you. 6.53
has nothing at all to do with charging either 'shoulder' of a gap.