Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Phil Gardocki]

If a missile unit is in a minor water feature, and cannot shoot, can it go to
Skirmish?

If a missile unit was in skirmish, and enters a minor water feature, is it
forced to
drop out of skirmish?

Is a marsh considered a water feature?

Thanks
Phil


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

>If a missile unit is in a minor water feature, and cannot shoot, can it go to
>Skirmish?>>

yes, if it is in its missile range of the enemy.

>
>If a missile unit was in skirmish, and enters a minor water feature, is it
>forced to
>drop out of skirmish?>>

not just by that, no

>
>Is a marsh considered a water feature?>>

no, not in terms of minor vs major anyway.

Terrain is getting its own complete rules section in the new rulebook along with
a one -page 'matrix' of all terrain and effects.

J

[Phil Gardocki]

Jon,
I disagree with your ruling on this question.

>>>If a missile unit is in a minor water feature, and cannot shoot, can it go
to
>>>Skirmish?
>>>>>>yes, if it is in its missile range of the enemy.

6.45 states that "Skirmish formation represents all the various
circulating methods used for shooting, whether..."
If a unit goes into skirmish in an area where it cannot shoot, then it
is doing it only to gain the other two benefits of the formation, evade and
missile resistance. It is no different from a JLS armed LMI unit going into
skirmish at 240 paces in front of a MI B unit. The LMI cannot shoot, and it is
not allowed.
Also, as a requirement to go into skirmish, the unit must be within its
missile range, there is no requirement in the rules about being in range of the
enemy.

I do agree with your second ruling based on the way the rules are
written. Once a unit is in skirmish, it is not require to come out, but is
required
to stay within its missile range of the enemy.
I would offer a specious argument that the range of skirmishing unit in a
minor water feature is zero, and so can never enter skirmish, and must get as
close as possible to an enemy unit:) (moths to a flame)

Phil


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

First off, a reminder that I have already admitted here that the language of
6.45 is not the best and that it is a prime target for being rewritten more
clearly for the new rulebook. I am just beginning work on 6.0 now.

>     If a unit goes into skirmish in an area where it cannot shoot, then it
>is doing it only to gain the other two benefits of the formation,  evade and
>missile resistance. >>

It is true that a unit could adopt skirmish while in a minor water feature that
is an obstacle but also within missile range of the enemy and thus, while in the
feature, 'get' the 'advantages' of skirmish while not being able to shoot. It
is an anomaly that I suspect I will be able to fix while I rewrite 6.45.
However, I do not as yet have any idea how that text will turn out in final form
and I am not issuing another clarification before HCon unless absoluetly
necessary - and in the case of skirmishing units in minor water features, there
is certainly no necessity...

<< It is no different from a JLS armed LMI unit going into
>skirmish at 240 paces in front of a MI B unit.  The LMI cannot shoot, and it is
>not allowed.  >>

It is not allowed because the MI is not and cannot get to the JLS unit's missile
range. It doesn't say anything about 'cannot shoot'.

I may end up taking your idea and saying if you are in a water feature that is
an obstacle you have no shooting range - we'll have to see.

Jon

[John Murphy]

I have a 2 cents on this...

I think it also needs to be said explicitly here that, while i
understand the game reasons for allowing this, the concept of men in
water deep enough to hinder movement and prevent firing "milling
about in skirmish" in any kind of way that would facilitate evasion
or hinder enemy fire is rather realistically tenuous.

In fact I would say that generally there should only be two words
for a light foot unit caught by missile fire while crossing a water
feature - "dead meat". But I would argue in any case that enhancing
evasion/counter chances and resiliance to enemy missiles is _not_ a
good thing even if it is how the rules are currently played.

...for what it was worth.