Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Phil Gardocki]

Sorry Scott, I sent this to you personally accidently.

I have question regarding the Swiss halbard rule and disorder.
A Swiss pike block of 2 ranks of LMI,P and 1 rank of LHI, 2HCT are in the
second round of combat, in a situation where they get to pull the LHI, 2HCT
element to the front rank .

The block was disordered by the previous rounds combat, as it would have to
be except for absolutely even battles.

The rule says the LHI, 2HCT fights "steady", even though the block is
disordered.
I believe the intention is to allow the block to count shielded on the second
round of combat but I am not sure if this means steady for part of the combat
and disordered for other parts of the combat.

A) Does the LMI, P in the second rank fighting -1 for disordered?
B) Does the LHI,2HCT in the front rank fighting -1 for disordered?
C) If facing Cavalry, does the Cav get +2 vs disordered foot?
D) Does the blocks armor count as LHI, for the front rank, or LMI, the second
rank?

Phil


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Todd Schneider]

I’ll take a stab at this…no pun intended…



1. The Pike fights disordered.
2. The 2HCT fights disordered, but counts as shielded, because 2HCT
always count shielded on first contact, and this bound would be the first
time they are in contact with the enemy.
3. Yes, I think they do.
4. A unit in contact with the 2HCT LHI on the front rank would fight
them as LHI. A Unit contacting the block on the flank would fight as if
against MI.



As an example, where each letter is 1E, if Z were the 2HCT, Y the Pike
elements, A and B enemy units:



YYYY

YYYY

BYYYY

BZ Z Z Z

AAAA

AAAA



A Would be fighting against LHI, B against LMI.



Keep in Mind though, unless your fighting LI to the front, the “upgrade” in
fighting as 2HCW is going to be anywhere from +2 to +3 better than if you
were fighting them with P, so the negative modifier for being disordered is
negated by the increased Weapon Factor (Disordered P against HI fight at a
1, Disordered 2HCW fight at a 4. I think, and please feel free to correct
me, in the above example, if A were HI, you would be 4@4, and 8@1, which on
even dice is 24 casualties if your enemy were shielded. If the enemy HI
were unshielded it would be 4@6 and 8@3, or 40 casualties. I haven’t
looked at the chart that closely, but I think Unit A would have to roll Up
to avoid being disordered in return. The Swiss would take it in the
lederhosen though from the Cav on the flank.



My amateur .02 cents,

Todd





_____

From: PHGamer@... [mailto:PHGamer@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 9:19 PM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WarriorRules] Swiss Pike and Halbard



Sorry Scott, I sent this to you personally accidently.

I have question regarding the Swiss halbard rule and disorder.
A Swiss pike block of 2 ranks of LMI,P and 1 rank of LHI, 2HCT are in the
second round of combat, in a situation where they get to pull the LHI, 2HCT
element to the front rank .

The block was disordered by the previous rounds combat, as it would have to
be except for absolutely even battles.

The rule says the LHI, 2HCT fights "steady", even though the block is
disordered.
I believe the intention is to allow the block to count shielded on the
second
round of combat but I am not sure if this means steady for part of the
combat
and disordered for other parts of the combat.

A) Does the LMI, P in the second rank fighting -1 for disordered?
B) Does the LHI,2HCT in the front rank fighting -1 for disordered?
C) If facing Cavalry, does the Cav get +2 vs disordered foot?
D) Does the blocks armor count as LHI, for the front rank, or LMI, the
second
rank?

Phil


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com








Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



ADVERTISEMENT
HYPERLINK
"http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12cvl7cma/M=266841.4316200.5507732.1261774/D=egroup
web/S=1705059080:HM/EXP=1072495147/A=1911858/R=0/*http:/www.lifescapeinc.com
/picasa/landing.php?capid=222&caId=1987"click here


HYPERLINK
"http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=266841.4316200.5507732.1261774/D=egroupmai
l/S=:HM/A=1911858/rand=840148704"



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
HYPERLINK
"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarriorRules/"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/W
arriorRules/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
HYPERLINK
"mailto:WarriorRules-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"Warrior
Rules-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK
"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 12/5/2003



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 12/5/2003



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

The rule that mostly applies to your questions, Phil, is 9.41. The operative
sentence being:

"If the target body's ranks differ in type, count it as having the type and
shields of
the element in contact if steady, otherwise the type of that immediately
behind if worse, but the shields of that in contact. "

A) Does the LMI, P in the second rank fighting -1 for disordered?
Yes, because that element is disordered.

B) Does the LHI,2HCT in the front rank fighting -1 for disordered?
No, because that element is not treated as disordered by the list rule.

C) If facing Cavalry, does the Cav get +2 vs disordered foot?
No, because the cav is in contact with an element that is treated as steady
by a list rule.

D) Does the blocks armor count as LHI, for the front rank, or LMI, the second
rank?
LHI - see 9.41 above. As the LHI is a steady element for this fight by list
rule, the enemy fights the armour in contact.

Jon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

Todd, I love you like a brother, but I would ask you and everyone else to let
me answer the rules questions here. Only confusion can result otherwise.

I have answered Phil's question in another mail, but just to illustrate the
dangers of folks not me answering rules questions, I'll comment on Todd's
answer.

2. The 2HCT fights disordered, but counts as shielded, because 2HCT
always count shielded on first contact, and this bound would be the first
time they are in contact with the enemy.
Wrong. The Feudal Warrior Swiss list rule says that they 'count as steady'.
If you 'count as' something (or are 'treated as') in Warrior, you are
entirely that way until the 'counting as' ends.

Jon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Phil Gardocki]

I do not think the doubled and 1 is relevent, as this Swiss rule only applies
when the enemy of the pike block is not recoiled or broken. After the first
bound, the pike will be disorded with this critea, as pike does not recoil
from foot, but becomes disordered, and recoils from mounted is also a cause from
disorder.
Phil


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Kelly Wilkinson]

********************************************************************************\n*************


Jon,
Okay, what if the swiss unit were doubled in hand to hand and received at
least 1 cpf, would the halberd element still count steady? And in this scenario
if it were steady, at what point would it not be steady?

kelly

JonCleaves@... wrote:
The rule that mostly applies to your questions, Phil, is 9.41. The operative
sentence being:

"If the target body's ranks differ in type, count it as having the type and
shields of
the element in contact if steady, otherwise the type of that immediately
behind if worse, but the shields of that in contact. "

A) Does the LMI, P in the second rank fighting -1 for disordered?
Yes, because that element is disordered.

B) Does the LHI,2HCT in the front rank fighting -1 for disordered?
No, because that element is not treated as disordered by the list rule.

C) If facing Cavalry, does the Cav get +2 vs disordered foot?
No, because the cav is in contact with an element that is treated as steady
by a list rule.

D) Does the blocks armor count as LHI, for the front rank, or LMI, the second
rank?
LHI - see 9.41 above. As the LHI is a steady element for this fight by list
rule, the enemy fights the armour in contact.

Jon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com





---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarriorRules/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WarriorRules-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]