Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[John Garlic]

I am curious how most people organize their Russ on this issue. Do they go
three deep, or just two with bows in back?

John

> How many of you play close order infantry with a third rank armed
> with B only? I have played Byzantines, various Arabs, and Rus like
> this and still debate whether they are worth the points. I know they
> flesh out units and can be effective against the enemies cav, but his
> cav normally avoid the LTS anyway. Just a thought.
>
> Wes



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

How many of you play close order infantry with a third rank armed
with B only? I have played Byzantines, various Arabs, and Rus like
this and still debate whether they are worth the points. I know they
flesh out units and can be effective against the enemies cav, but his
cav normally avoid the LTS anyway. Just a thought.

Wes

[Don Coon]

The group I play with in DFW is split on this issue. 2 of the regular
players play this each way. IOW one regular DFW is a die hard 3rd rank B
player, and the other is a never get caught with 3rd rankers player. They
both are good players, and use the two methods to their own styles.

Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "lsu90" <lsu90@...>
To: <WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 12:18 PM
Subject: [WarriorRules] Third rank of bow


> How many of you play close order infantry with a third rank armed
> with B only? I have played Byzantines, various Arabs, and Rus like
> this and still debate whether they are worth the points. I know they
> flesh out units and can be effective against the enemies cav, but his
> cav normally avoid the LTS anyway. Just a thought.
>
> Wes
>
>
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>

One possibility is 8 element units, 4 bow and 4 LTS. That way you can play
either 2 frontages with LTS,LTS,B,B(doesn¹t actually fight) or 4 frontages
with LTS, B.

> How many of you play close order infantry with a third rank armed
> with B only? I have played Byzantines, various Arabs, and Rus like
> this and still debate whether they are worth the points. I know they
> flesh out units and can be effective against the enemies cav, but his
> cav normally avoid the LTS anyway. Just a thought.
>
> Wes
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The way I see it is that against cav a 3rd rank of bow can cause 2
CPF on small HC and force a Morale Check (not many HC will want to
charge LTS) and can possibly cause Pinning LC or LI to withdraw
without having to charge them.

Against infantry the 3rd rank of bow beefs up your spear in its
ability to take CPFs, but has little combat value.

Against K and EL it can push casulaties over the edge and rout a unit
where the spear alone could not cause 3CPF. But this advantage is
lost against SHK and not many of these hit my LTS unless I'm
disordered anyway.

The problem is that by using the Bow you cut down your frontage
significantly. I lose 1 element of MI,LTS,Jls,Sh for every 2
elements of MI,B I buy in my Rus army. I'm not convinced that the
benefits outweigh the cost. Especially when the enemies cav normally
avoids my center anyway!

I'm currently running them without the bow, but I'm not sure if this
maximizes my advantages. Any other thoughts out there that I'm
missing?

Wes

[joncleaves]

Another aspect of a third rank of bow is that those elements can use the
'shooters directly in front and capable of shooting' priority rule to draw off
enemy archers and cause the opponent to split fire against the big block so as
to
protect some more vulnerable unit nearby. Like a cav unit, for example.

And the bow allows this to occur in a 'zone' out to 240p....


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Chris Bump]

For me the 3rd rank of bows is as much of an anti-infantry weapon as anti-cav.
This is particularly so with LTS armed foot. I am painting a Nik Byz army and
am painting the third rank bows for the skut's. I like the ability to put 8
missles per element frontage out. It betters my chances of pinning my oppossing
unit and allowing me to get a charge off and also provides much better
likelihood that I will iniflict at least 1 cpf in support shooting should I be
forced to take the charge at the halt.

I would probably give the third rank to any irregular close order foot that
could have them as well. They are already cumbersome and the ability to reach
out and touch someone will cause a little more reaction by my opponents. I do
not see them as a method of driving off light infantry/ cav, but they are
certainly capable of this, particularly if you spend the approach move
exchanging ranks and placing them in the second rank, which of course has its
own risks.

My hip shot thoughts fwiw.
Chris

In a message dated 10/11/2003 4:09:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jjendon@... writes:
>
> The group I play with in DFW is split on this issue. 2 of the regular
> players play this each way. IOW one regular DFW is a die hard 3rd rank B
> player, and the other is a never get caught with 3rd rankers player. They
> both are good players, and use the two methods to their own styles.
>
> Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lsu90" <lsu90@...>
> To: <WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 12:18 PM
> Subject: [WarriorRules] Third rank of bow
>
>
> > How many of you play close order infantry with a third rank armed
> > with B only? I have played Byzantines, various Arabs, and Rus like
> > this and still debate whether they are worth the points. I know they
> > flesh out units and can be effective against the enemies cav, but his
> > cav normally avoid the LTS anyway. Just a thought.
> >
> > Wes
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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I never thought of that. In the past I used small 2E huscarl units
in between the big blocks and I would have to stagger them back 40p
in order to let the blocks absorb enemy missles and that took away
the advantages of a longer charge reach. With bow in the 3rd rank
they don't have to be staggered back and can do a better job of
prempting a enemies charge.
Thanks

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> Another aspect of a third rank of bow is that those elements can
use the
> 'shooters directly in front and capable of shooting' priority rule
to draw off
> enemy archers and cause the opponent to split fire against the big
block so as to
> protect some more vulnerable unit nearby. Like a cav unit, for
example.
>
> And the bow allows this to occur in a 'zone' out to 240p....
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Greg Regets]

Jon has hit the ball down the center of the fairway with this post.
This is by far the biggest reason to mix archers into a unit, in my
opinion.

I also like the ability to place them in the second row to shoot off
LI or LC. Especially useful if you are going to force march these
units, as nobody will get to charge you in that turn at any rate.

As always ... just my opinion.

g




--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> Another aspect of a third rank of bow is that those elements can
use the
> 'shooters directly in front and capable of shooting' priority rule
to draw off
> enemy archers and cause the opponent to split fire against the big
block so as to
> protect some more vulnerable unit nearby. Like a cav unit, for
example.
>
> And the bow allows this to occur in a 'zone' out to 240p....
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Kelly Wilkinson]

This is what I like to do with my Arab Imperial army.
Buy the way, I very much enjoyed my Fast Warrior game with you, Jon! Kudos
go out to you for a well played game and tournament! :)

Kelly

JonCleaves@... wrote:
Another aspect of a third rank of bow is that those elements can use the
'shooters directly in front and capable of shooting' priority rule to draw off
enemy archers and cause the opponent to split fire against the big block so as
to
protect some more vulnerable unit nearby. Like a cav unit, for example.

And the bow allows this to occur in a 'zone' out to 240p....


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[scott holder]

Another aspect of a third rank of bow is that those elements can use the
'shooters directly in front and capable of shooting' priority rule to draw off
enemy archers and cause the opponent to split fire against the big block so as
to
protect some more vulnerable unit nearby. Like a cav unit, for example.

And the bow allows this to occur in a 'zone' out to 240p....

>This is hugely important and allows certain armies to mitigate the effects of
"missile intensive" lists like two of the NICT finalists this year, Midianites
and Silla Korean.