Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

Greg Regets · Imperator Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 2988

Patrick ...

First and foremost, I would like to apologize for not attending. I have a
Friday night function that I just cannot get out of. If you will send me your
address, I will mail you my entry fee to help with the cost of the event.

I actually think our area is doing farely well on attendance, all things
considered. We did well in the last DFW outing, and feel the next few will be
well attended. This is a growing process, and we have to progress, as we
progress.

I do have a few points though.

Army Scale - I know the Dallas group far prefers 25mm, but the reality of the
matter is, WELL more than half the SW Region does not own a 25mm army. Most
people are working on one, but this takes time, and is increasingly problematic
at a time when new lists are coming out every day. I'm not telling you not to
run 25mm tournaments, but will say that you need to have very low attendance
goals at this time, as we have a very small pool from which to pull. In the
last 25mm tournament you had in Ft. Worth, you got 100% of the pool from San
Antonio in 25mm. I don't think John or myself had a whole 1600 point army, but
we came and played anyway. I think John had 1545 or so, and I had 1493.

Information - At the last DFW tournament, I mentioned Mike Russell to Harlan,
and he had never heard of him, nor had any contact information on him. This was
bad, but worse still, I hooked up with James Boyd and his son, and got contact
information on him, and somehow lost it (probably while drunk). This sort of
thing is just killing us. We have an excellent Region Coordinator in Harlan
Garrett. We need to make sure we get contact information to him so he can get
the word out. We also need welcome packages at the tournaments. Ian Straus used
to have these and they worked very well.

Location - I think the hobby shop in DFW where Harlan ran the last event is the
place to be. It is a nice space, and the financials all seem to work. The San
Antonio guys have a cheap flop. We should try to figure out how to better
accommodate people coming from other areas. Perhaps we could let them play
free, if they have to get a hotel. I think OKC is just not a very good
location. It is too hard to fly from South Texas, and I do not have the time to
drive.

I have two more comments, but I will send them to you offline.

Thank you ...
G

Greg Regets · Imperator Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 2988

Mark ...

You can of course play any Monday night at David "Big Dave" Beesons. We have
been having a blast as of late! We have even been experimenting with playing
each other's armies, which is very instructive.

FYI ...

.. never give Chris Tebo an army with no bows. It makes him depressed, almost
to the point of suicide.

.. Mike Forbes actually rolled up ... TWICE!

.. Dave played mounted knights for the first time since lance went to 1.5
ranks. He made wood!

.. Harlan came down a few weeks back for his semi-monthly a$$-kicking. He
blamed the whole thing on the French.

.. We had a discussion about politics. I was seriously outnumbered. I had to
play my ace in the hole and point out that they are called the Republican
Guard, not the Democratic Guard.

Last but not least ... bean dip IS NOT an acceptable snack at a get together of
ancients players!

G

> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> Greg, 
> Contact me offlist on Boyd, I talk to him frequently. 
> I didn't know he played Warrior, he plays at DBM but 
> his son has gone to WH/Chronopia. 
> 
> As to 25mm, while it looks fun, I would offer up to 
> the group that gaming in any system is entirely 
> different in 15mm than in 25mm, due to board size, 
> movement scale, ranges and geometry of combat. 
> 
> DBM v3 (version 3) alienated many 15mm players by 
> rewriting the rules so 15mm and 25mm had the same 
> results, now it is skewed. 
> 
> The learning curve in Warrior is steep, and there are 
> fewer folks willing to sit down and learn new systems, 
> even tough for those of us who played 6,7 etc. 
> 
> I wish you luck in growing the hobby and I will 
> eventually play in 15mm when I feel semi-confident. 
> While I don't mind having my ass handed to me, I try 
> to uphold some minor dignity. As evidenced by my 
> miserable performance in the IWF in DBM (and DBR) 
> last month in New Orleans. I couldn't even blame it 
> on alcohol, though there was a great deal present. 
> 
> 25mm is a fun scale, but with today's costs, new 
> armies are less viable and now I want pretty toys as 
> well as mass. Just my views, Mark 
> 
> --- gar@... wrote: 
> > Patrick ... 
> > 
> > First and foremost, I would like to apologize for 
> > not attending. I have a 
> > Friday night function that I just cannot get out of. 
> > If you will send me your 
> > address, I will mail you my entry fee to help with 
> > the cost of the event. 
> > 
> > I actually think our area is doing farely well on 
> > attendance, all things 
> > considered. We did well in the last DFW outing, and 
> > feel the next few will be 
> > well attended. This is a growing process, and we 
> > have to progress, as we 
> > progress. 
> > 
> > I do have a few points though. 
> > 
> > Army Scale - I know the Dallas group far prefers 
> > 25mm, but the reality of the 
> > matter is, WELL more than half the SW Region does 
> > not own a 25mm army. Most 
> > people are working on one, but this takes time, and 
> > is increasingly problematic 
> > at a time when new lists are coming out every day. 
> > I'm not telling you not to 
> > run 25mm tournaments, but will say that you need to 
> > have very low attendance 
> > goals at this time, as we have a very small pool 
> > from which to pull. In the 
> > last 25mm tournament you had in Ft. Worth, you got 
> > 100% of the pool from San 
> > Antonio in 25mm. I don't think John or myself had a 
> > whole 1600 point army, but 
> > we came and played anyway. I think John had 1545 or 
> > so, and I had 1493. 
> > 
> > Information - At the last DFW tournament, I 
> > mentioned Mike Russell to Harlan, 
> > and he had never heard of him, nor had any contact 
> > information on him. This was 
> > bad, but worse still, I hooked up with James Boyd 
> > and his son, and got contact 
> > information on him, and somehow lost it (probably 
> > while drunk). This sort of 
> > thing is just killing us. We have an excellent 
> > Region Coordinator in Harlan 
> > Garrett. We need to make sure we get contact 
> > information to him so he can get 
> > the word out. We also need welcome packages at the 
> > tournaments. Ian Straus used 
> > to have these and they worked very well. 
> > 
> > Location - I think the hobby shop in DFW where 
> > Harlan ran the last event is the 
> > place to be. It is a nice space, and the financials 
> > all seem to work. The San 
> > Antonio guys have a cheap flop. We should try to 
> > figure out how to better 
> > accommodate people coming from other areas. Perhaps 
> > we could let them play 
> > free, if they have to get a hotel. I think OKC is 
> > just not a very good 
> > location. It is too hard to fly from South Texas, 
> > and I do not have the time to 
> > drive. 
> > 
> > I have two more comments, but I will send them to 
> > you offline. 
> > 
> > Thank you ... 
> > G 
> > 
> > 
> 
> </tt>
>
> 
>
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Patrick Byrne · Centurion Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1433

On Requesting advice on Tournament Attendance,

I'll admit that I do not have a lot of experience organizing tournaments.
So I am posing a question now that I probably should have asked a while
back.

How do you increase tournament size, entice people to come, and actually get
them to show?

In the Texas Area, I have seen many tourneys both 15mm and 25mm. Most of
them start out with many people saying that they are very interested in
attending but then bow out by the weekend. The worst was when Harlan
reserved a hotel conference room for Sat and Sun, then only 6 people showed
out of a possible 18, (then only 3 or 4 showed on Sunday).

The practice I like to do is to let people know well ahead of time.
Allowing them to mark the date on the calendar and work around it. I send
out reminders just to keep it fresh in everyone's mind. But now at the last
minute, people are backing out.

So I would like to hear from people and or organizers, what draws the
attendance?

1. Prizes. I've heard that cash prizes are problematic as it gets people
arguing and then makes the tourney no fun. Also, the tournies that Harlan
runs has many prizes to include Plaques, Lead, and even Gift Certificates.
Still get low attendance.

2. Low cost. I try to keep the cost low for people, especially for those
out of town (including myself when traveling). But exactly how low can you
go? For example, if someone was splitting a room at this years Twistercon,
the cost would be $79 (not including food and gas)

I'd even like to hear from you guys in England, Australia, Deutschland, etc.

Currently flustered,
-PB

joncleaves · Moderator Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 16447

Here's my $.02.

First, you want new blood, you can't run 25mm 1600 points events in a low-market
con.

We started with 6 in a fast warrior event last may - it went to 12 in october
and we could get 16 this coming may.
We started with all provided armies and this time, while we are lending some
out, enough interest was generated by the last one to see a few guys starting
their own. Since we're talking FW at the outset, it's easier for a guy to get
into.
Fast Warrior also doesn't take the whole con to do three rounds. I don't agree
with Scott - 3 x 4 hour rounds is for die hards and their close friends and
kids. You want to expand, you will have to compete with faster games and make
it easier for a newbie to get his own army on the table in less than a year.

Prizes: cash doesn't make people act any more like dickheads than they already
are. The key to bad sportsmanship, no matter the cause, is to not tolerate it.
Don't score a dick badly on sportsmanship - he won't care, because he's a dick
-give him one warning and them toss him.
Painted armies/units, plaques, figs, $, gift certificates are all good and all
of them in the same tourney is even better.

Timing: Good: not in a month with another con your area attends. Bad: middle of
vacation months, holidays.

April should actually be a good month, but we have a con in both April and May
here, so TCon just too hard to do. I assume it is good for the OKC area?

I have 25mm lead. I have multiple 1600 point armies. I would prefer to play in
tourneys that use one or both. However, I am NOT the target audience. You want
to up the numbers, you need to at least initially compete with faster game
systems and you need to both make it easy on the player to attend and offer him
a prize of some kind even if he doesn't do well (and something even bigger for
the winner).

J

Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 0

I have to agree with Jon.

Getting beat regularly in Fast Warrior made it easier to transition to getting
beat in larger point battles. If I had to learn in 1600 point battles, I don't
think I would be so enthusiastic about learning from losing now.

Todd

joncleaves · Moderator Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 16447

In a message dated 4/7/2003 9:51:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, gar@...
writes:

> I have two more comments, but I will send them to you
> offline.>>

Gosh, Greg, if they are helpful - share them, would ya?

Harlan Garrett · Centurion Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 943

Ditto,

Harlan
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick [mailto:cuan@...]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 12:34 PM
To: Warrior Rules
Subject: [WarriorRules] Tourney Attendance

On Requesting advice on Tournament Attendance,

I'll admit that I do not have a lot of experience organizing tournaments.
So I am posing a question now that I probably should have asked a while
back.

How do you increase tournament size, entice people to come, and actually get
them to show?

In the Texas Area, I have seen many tourneys both 15mm and 25mm. Most of
them start out with many people saying that they are very interested in
attending but then bow out by the weekend. The worst was when Harlan
reserved a hotel conference room for Sat and Sun, then only 6 people showed
out of a possible 18, (then only 3 or 4 showed on Sunday).

The practice I like to do is to let people know well ahead of time.
Allowing them to mark the date on the calendar and work around it. I send
out reminders just to keep it fresh in everyone's mind. But now at the last
minute, people are backing out.

So I would like to hear from people and or organizers, what draws the
attendance?

1. Prizes. I've heard that cash prizes are problematic as it gets people
arguing and then makes the tourney no fun. Also, the tournies that Harlan
runs has many prizes to include Plaques, Lead, and even Gift Certificates.
Still get low attendance.

2. Low cost. I try to keep the cost low for people, especially for those
out of town (including myself when traveling). But exactly how low can you
go? For example, if someone was splitting a room at this years Twistercon,
the cost would be $79 (not including food and gas)

I'd even like to hear from you guys in England, Australia, Deutschland, etc.

Currently flustered,
-PB

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Recruit Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 85

Greg,
Contact me offlist on Boyd, I talk to him frequently.
I didn't know he played Warrior, he plays at DBM but
his son has gone to WH/Chronopia.

As to 25mm, while it looks fun, I would offer up to
the group that gaming in any system is entirely
different in 15mm than in 25mm, due to board size,
movement scale, ranges and geometry of combat.

DBM v3 (version 3) alienated many 15mm players by
rewriting the rules so 15mm and 25mm had the same
results, now it is skewed.

The learning curve in Warrior is steep, and there are
fewer folks willing to sit down and learn new systems,
even tough for those of us who played 6,7 etc.

I wish you luck in growing the hobby and I will
eventually play in 15mm when I feel semi-confident.
While I don't mind having my ass handed to me, I try
to uphold some minor dignity. As evidenced by my
miserable performance in the IWF in DBM (and DBR)
last month in New Orleans. I couldn't even blame it
on alcohol, though there was a great deal present.

25mm is a fun scale, but with today's costs, new
armies are less viable and now I want pretty toys as
well as mass. Just my views, Mark

--- gar@... wrote:
> Patrick ...
>
> First and foremost, I would like to apologize for
> not attending. I have a
> Friday night function that I just cannot get out of.
> If you will send me your
> address, I will mail you my entry fee to help with
> the cost of the event.
>
> I actually think our area is doing farely well on
> attendance, all things
> considered. We did well in the last DFW outing, and
> feel the next few will be
> well attended. This is a growing process, and we
> have to progress, as we
> progress.
>
> I do have a few points though.
>
> Army Scale - I know the Dallas group far prefers
> 25mm, but the reality of the
> matter is, WELL more than half the SW Region does
> not own a 25mm army. Most
> people are working on one, but this takes time, and
> is increasingly problematic
> at a time when new lists are coming out every day.
> I'm not telling you not to
> run 25mm tournaments, but will say that you need to
> have very low attendance
> goals at this time, as we have a very small pool
> from which to pull. In the
> last 25mm tournament you had in Ft. Worth, you got
> 100% of the pool from San
> Antonio in 25mm. I don't think John or myself had a
> whole 1600 point army, but
> we came and played anyway. I think John had 1545 or
> so, and I had 1493.
>
> Information - At the last DFW tournament, I
> mentioned Mike Russell to Harlan,
> and he had never heard of him, nor had any contact
> information on him. This was
> bad, but worse still, I hooked up with James Boyd
> and his son, and got contact
> information on him, and somehow lost it (probably
> while drunk). This sort of
> thing is just killing us. We have an excellent
> Region Coordinator in Harlan
> Garrett. We need to make sure we get contact
> information to him so he can get
> the word out. We also need welcome packages at the
> tournaments. Ian Straus used
> to have these and they worked very well.
>
> Location - I think the hobby shop in DFW where
> Harlan ran the last event is the
> place to be. It is a nice space, and the financials
> all seem to work. The San
> Antonio guys have a cheap flop. We should try to
> figure out how to better
> accommodate people coming from other areas. Perhaps
> we could let them play
> free, if they have to get a hotel. I think OKC is
> just not a very good
> location. It is too hard to fly from South Texas,
> and I do not have the time to
> drive.
>
> I have two more comments, but I will send them to
> you offline.
>
> Thank you ...
> G
>
>

scott holder · Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 12:25 am Post subject: RE: Tourney Attendance

First, you want new blood, you can't run 25mm 1600 points events in a
low-market con.

>I can't disagree with this. OTOH, I guess any given event is aimed at some
"target audience", be it old or new blood. Given the postings from last year,
I'd assumed TwisterCon's Warrior events were aimed more at "old blood" rather
than new, hence, the format was what you see. But, perhaps this current
situation tells us that we can't reliably rely on "old blood" to show up after
saying they'll show up. Please, don't anyone take that as an indictment. It's
merely an observation and one that applies to loads of other systems. For
example, Darrell also gripes about how the STL DBM crowd will say "oh yeah, I'll
show up for that Saturday one day event" and then no one does and they all live
within an hour of any given venue. His situation is not unlike what we're
dealing with here, ie "old blood" in that gaming system.

I don't
agree with Scott - 3 x 4 hour rounds is for die hards and their close friends
and kids. You want to expand, you will have to compete with faster games and
make it easier for a newbie to get his own army on the table in less than a
year.

>Again, I can't disagree with that. And again, tho, it depends on who the
target audience is for such an event. If aimed solely at "old blood", then
"they" *want* 1600 points, 4 hour rounds, therefore, it makes sense to offer
that up, assuming your target audience can be relied upon to show up. Let's ask
ourselves, if this were a 1000 point 15mm Warrior event, would more people have
committed to showing up? Or perhaps it was a mix of FW tourney formats with
duplicate events and "open" events in both scales that might attract newcomers
with no lead. Would that have translated into more attendance? I honestly
don't know the answer to that question. From my perspective, I'd take whatever
was tossed out, 15mm, 25mm, any size tourney, FW, etc., if it meant getting
maybe 10 folks together to play the system and "show the flag" so to speak. I
do think the bottom line here is the one-on-one approach to the game system in
terms of recruiting and the more of that that occurs, the greater the chances
are we'll see more folks attend.

April should actually be a good month, but we have a con in both April and May
here, so TCon just too hard to do. I assume it is good for the OKC area?

>That's in some ways out of their hands. HMGS Tornado Alley will be dictating
events and they also have to balance other HMGS regional cons like Border Wars,
etc. So, I think this time is probably the best one could hope for.

>FWIW, I certainly don't have any good answers to this. I will say that if you
want to broaden your audience, you need to first one-on-one recruit (or in small
groups) using precisely what Jon outlined. Then run a Tcon *not* at 1600 pts, 4
hour rounds so that those newbies can show up with an expectation of not getting
hammered, then move onto something else. Again, this is predicated on the
assumption that "old blood" cannot be relied upon to commit to these events and
that "new blood" will round out things assuming a format is run that doesn't
drive them away.

scott

Kelly Wilkinson · Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Tourney Attendance

The earth is shaking on it foundations again. I find myself agreeing with Jon.
You want to bring in newbs, run fast warrior events and provide the troops.
That's how you will snag folks. 25mm is just too expensive for the guy just
getting into the hobby. And take it from me, the hordes of DBM'ers that show up
are all 15mm players. Not that we want them playing warrior but don't you think
they would know something about the choice of scale for ancients players in that
area?
In as far as prizes, you have to offer things like the "Next to Last Place
Prize." This should be on par with what you are offering the first place guy. It
keeps the new guy in the tournament for a substantial prize rather than just
quitting because of a Newb performance in the last round. Further, you could do
something like what our good friend Harlan does in which various door prizes are
given out. I personally like my idea of giving the highest placing out of towner
a prize like a painted Fast Warrior Army in the hope that more folks from out of
the area will show up as I'm offering at Call to Arms at the Fast Warrior
Tournament.
Good Gaming,
Kelly Wilkinson
JonCleaves@... wrote:Here's my $.02.

First, you want new blood, you can't run 25mm 1600 points events in a low-market
con.

We started with 6 in a fast warrior event last may - it went to 12 in october
and we could get 16 this coming may.
We started with all provided armies and this time, while we are lending some
out, enough interest was generated by the last one to see a few guys starting
their own. Since we're talking FW at the outset, it's easier for a guy to get
into.
Fast Warrior also doesn't take the whole con to do three rounds. I don't agree
with Scott - 3 x 4 hour rounds is for die hards and their close friends and
kids. You want to expand, you will have to compete with faster games and make
it easier for a newbie to get his own army on the table in less than a year.

Prizes: cash doesn't make people act any more like dickheads than they already
are. The key to bad sportsmanship, no matter the cause, is to not tolerate it.
Don't score a dick badly on sportsmanship - he won't care, because he's a dick
-give him one warning and them toss him.
Painted armies/units, plaques, figs, $, gift certificates are all good and all
of them in the same tourney is even better.

Timing: Good: not in a month with another con your area attends. Bad: middle of
vacation months, holidays.

April should actually be a good month, but we have a con in both April and May
here, so TCon just too hard to do. I assume it is good for the OKC area?

I have 25mm lead. I have multiple 1600 point armies. I would prefer to play in
tourneys that use one or both. However, I am NOT the target audience. You want
to up the numbers, you need to at least initially compete with faster game
systems and you need to both make it easy on the player to attend and offer him
a prize of some kind even if he doesn't do well (and something even bigger for
the winner).

J

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