Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

Afternoon Scott,

I just started the process of preparing to buy and paint a Byzantine
Army. As I was going thru the Dark Ages/Holy Warrior Books I found
that the Trapezitoi is not represented in several of the Bzyantine
lists. I'm sure this is an oversight and would like to see an
adjustment to the lists to include them as they should be.

We are talking about the Trapezitoi that are LC, L, JLS, SH. They
are the same value as the Byzantine LC, B, SH.

Being an avid player of Byzantines, (1974-1985) I can say I have done
a fair amount of research on the Byzantines and know them very well.

Thanks in advance for your help in this issue.

Your friend,

Aubrey Jack Young
417-833-5112

[scott holder]

It is not an oversight. Please go do a search on this in the archives and
you'll see it's an issue that's been flogged to death. Paul Georgian can answer
any questions about why Trapezitoi were dropped.

-----Original Message-----
From: Aubrey J. Young [mailto:captainjack75040@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 12:45 PM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WarriorRules] Trapezitoi?


Afternoon Scott,

I just started the process of preparing to buy and paint a Byzantine
Army. As I was going thru the Dark Ages/Holy Warrior Books I found
that the Trapezitoi is not represented in several of the Bzyantine
lists. I'm sure this is an oversight and would like to see an
adjustment to the lists to include them as they should be.

We are talking about the Trapezitoi that are LC, L, JLS, SH. They
are the same value as the Byzantine LC, B, SH.

Being an avid player of Byzantines, (1974-1985) I can say I have done
a fair amount of research on the Byzantines and know them very well.

Thanks in advance for your help in this issue.

Your friend,

Aubrey Jack Young
417-833-5112






Yahoo! Groups Links

[Greg Regets]

Your wasting your time Jack, I already used every method of reason
and logic available to human kind, to press this topic.

Perhaps prayer will work, or at worst, sell your "Trapz" on e-bay.
Every other game system on the planet still uses them, so you will
undoubtedly find a buyer.

greg ...



--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Holder, Scott"
<Scott.Holder@f...> wrote:
> It is not an oversight. Please go do a search on this in the
archives and you'll see it's an issue that's been flogged to death.
Paul Georgian can answer any questions about why Trapezitoi were
dropped.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aubrey J. Young [mailto:captainjack75040@y...]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 12:45 PM
> To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WarriorRules] Trapezitoi?
>
>
> Afternoon Scott,
>
> I just started the process of preparing to buy and paint a
Byzantine
> Army. As I was going thru the Dark Ages/Holy Warrior Books I found
> that the Trapezitoi is not represented in several of the Bzyantine
> lists. I'm sure this is an oversight and would like to see an
> adjustment to the lists to include them as they should be.
>
> We are talking about the Trapezitoi that are LC, L, JLS, SH. They
> are the same value as the Byzantine LC, B, SH.
>
> Being an avid player of Byzantines, (1974-1985) I can say I have
done
> a fair amount of research on the Byzantines and know them very
well.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help in this issue.
>
> Your friend,
>
> Aubrey Jack Young
> 417-833-5112
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links

Right as I have a Byzantine army in which I have Trapezitoi I'm
currently selling them on ebay

:)

Mike



--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Regets" <greg.regets@g...>
wrote:
> Your wasting your time Jack, I already used every method of reason
> and logic available to human kind, to press this topic.
>
> Perhaps prayer will work, or at worst, sell your "Trapz" on e-bay.
> Every other game system on the planet still uses them, so you will
> undoubtedly find a buyer.
>
> greg ...
>
>
>
> --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Holder, Scott"
> <Scott.Holder@f...> wrote:
> > It is not an oversight. Please go do a search on this in the
> archives and you'll see it's an issue that's been flogged to
death.
> Paul Georgian can answer any questions about why Trapezitoi were
> dropped.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Aubrey J. Young [mailto:captainjack75040@y...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 12:45 PM
> > To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [WarriorRules] Trapezitoi?
> >
> >
> > Afternoon Scott,
> >
> > I just started the process of preparing to buy and paint a
> Byzantine
> > Army. As I was going thru the Dark Ages/Holy Warrior Books I
found
> > that the Trapezitoi is not represented in several of the
Bzyantine
> > lists. I'm sure this is an oversight and would like to see an
> > adjustment to the lists to include them as they should be.
> >
> > We are talking about the Trapezitoi that are LC, L, JLS, SH.
They
> > are the same value as the Byzantine LC, B, SH.
> >
> > Being an avid player of Byzantines, (1974-1985) I can say I have
> done
> > a fair amount of research on the Byzantines and know them very
> well.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your help in this issue.
> >
> > Your friend,
> >
> > Aubrey Jack Young
> > 417-833-5112
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 3/2/2004 3:37:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
greg.regets@... writes:

> Every other game system on the planet still uses them,>>

You are free to play those, of course.

Aubry,

At the risk of opening a old smelly can of worms on this forum – what are
your references for allowing Trapezitoi?

Certainly credible evidence that has not been discussed and dismissed
previously would be helpful.

Thanks.

Scott A McCoppin, AIA
mccoppinarchitecture, pa
704.560.4154
architecture@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Aubrey J. Young [mailto:captainjack75040@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:45 PM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WarriorRules] Trapezitoi?

Afternoon Scott,

I just started the process of preparing to buy and paint a Byzantine
Army. As I was going thru the Dark Ages/Holy Warrior Books I found
that the Trapezitoi is not represented in several of the Bzyantine
lists. I'm sure this is an oversight and would like to see an
adjustment to the lists to include them as they should be.

We are talking about the Trapezitoi that are LC, L, JLS, SH. They
are the same value as the Byzantine LC, B, SH.

Being an avid player of Byzantines, (1974-1985) I can say I have done
a fair amount of research on the Byzantines and know them very well.

Thanks in advance for your help in this issue.

Your friend,

Aubrey Jack Young
417-833-5112





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

MOrning Scott,

Sad to say those resouces I used are no longer available to me. Back
in the early 1970s I was going to North Texas State and my wife was
going to Texas Woman's University. My main resources were from the
libraries of those colleges. Since I now live over 400 miles away,
they are no longer available to me.

Now, if you have a copy of Osprey Men At Arms series number
89 "Byzantine Armies 886-1118" you will see referenced on page 38
that the Trapizitoi was armed with a kontarion and two or three
javelins. The Trapizitoi also used the shield of the heavy foot.

Reference to the writings of Leo VI and of the author Sylloge
Tacticorum support this view. My earlier resouce came from the
writings of Maurice and also of Nikephoros II. Now, its been years
since I did this research so, my mind does not always remember things
the way it use to or I want it to. ;)

However Scott, some organizers of tournements are allowing older
published list to be used as long as one, they are published, and two
the individual cost have been converted to cost per element. So, in
this venue, Trapezitoi are not truly dead.

Ok then, take care,

Your friend,

Jack

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Scott & Tracie McCoppin"
<sctrac@p...> wrote:
> Aubry,
>
> At the risk of opening a old smelly can of worms on this forum –
what are
> your references for allowing Trapezitoi?
>
> Certainly credible evidence that has not been discussed and
dismissed
> previously would be helpful.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Scott A McCoppin, AIA
> mccoppinarchitecture, pa
> 704.560.4154
> architecture@p...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aubrey J. Young [mailto:captainjack75040@y...]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:45 PM
> To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WarriorRules] Trapezitoi?
>
> Afternoon Scott,
>
> I just started the process of preparing to buy and paint a Byzantine
> Army. As I was going thru the Dark Ages/Holy Warrior Books I found
> that the Trapezitoi is not represented in several of the Bzyantine
> lists. I'm sure this is an oversight and would like to see an
> adjustment to the lists to include them as they should be.
>
> We are talking about the Trapezitoi that are LC, L, JLS, SH. They
> are the same value as the Byzantine LC, B, SH.
>
> Being an avid player of Byzantines, (1974-1985) I can say I have
done
> a fair amount of research on the Byzantines and know them very well.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help in this issue.
>
> Your friend,
>
> Aubrey Jack Young
> 417-833-5112
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
> Click HereClick Here
>
<http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12c7o9ciq/M=274551.4550177.5761904.1261774/D=
egroup
>
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/ad.do
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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>
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> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[scott holder]

However Scott, some organizers of tournements are allowing older
published list to be used as long as one, they are published, and two
the individual cost have been converted to cost per element. So, in
this venue, Trapezitoi are not truly dead.

>Obviously, I can't dictate what local organizers do but I would urge everybody
to get off "old" lists. I do not allow old lists that appear on the
supercession list in any tourney I run and it's been NASAMW policy (fwiw) to
follow suit.

>We're the only "major rules system" that still has people using lists that are
20 years old with clearly incorrect material contained therein.

>See my other comments on trapezitoi. They still apply.

scott