Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 5/20/2004 4:13:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
larryessick@... writes:

> Scale and format decisions based on the desires of the peripheral
> group and designed to get maximum support from them.>>

Not what I would advise. I think you have to address the whole set of possible
attendees for scale and format. The locals don't need to make as hard decisions
about what has to be transported and how and aren't making as big a time and
money sacrifice, so the out-of-towners desires as to scale and format should
weigh heavily.


> 4. Some appropriate level of prize support.>>

Everyone is motivated differently and prizes have their role. At our last event
we had several hundred dollars in prizes provided by one vendor (through
HAHMGS), one individual, two ancients societies (NASAMW and TAPS) and the Dead
General's Society.

> 5. Stick to local or close by conventions to minimize
> personal
> expenses.>>

Yes, I am not sure why this keeps coming up. I think it would be rare for
someone to do the leg work for a con AND travel. I think, like with the Fifth
Horsemen program, we should identify and help those near cons who are willing to
do the work. We should be looking for someone in the vicinity of Nashcon, long
term anyway.

J

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 5/20/2004 4:15:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ewan.mcnay@... writes:

> I know of no-one in either hobby who attends for prizes.
> Literally no-one. I'd be surprised to meet someone such.>>

Gosh, Ewan, I know tons...lol

I don't think the majority of NICT players play for any przie, nor did they play
only for that back when the champ got an army.

But our last place, next to last place, next to next to last place and best
rookie awards often tip the scales when a player is making the hard decision to
come. Especially when one or more of them is a complete paint set or a painted
FW army...

Sure, not everyone, maybe not even the majority would be motivated by such
things. But if even one player shows up who would not and plays 3-4 games of
Warrior - all good.

J

[Todd Schneider]

<<<Hmm, so what scale and format was decided on? Jon
says that he polled people for their preference. Did
that hold true thru both cons or do you do different
things at each of them?>>>

Everyone locally plays mostly 15's, because they were
faster to get into. Jon does ask before every
tournament, but until recently it was a formailty
because the only particpants who might want to play
25's were out of towners who might not be able to show
up. However we as a group are miving towards 25's, in
fact it's already been decided that the next call to
arms in KC will be 25mm, which gives us all a year
lead time. That and the new rules for 30mm Fantsy
seem to work out very well, so we should be playing
more of that in the near future.

<<<Here is where Jon's experiences can really help
out. How did he build the local group of players and
how have you all expanded? Are most of the guys new
to the hobby or are they 'old' players who
have been re-energized?>>>

You'd have to ask Jon. I got into Wrrior by asking to
play a game of Napoleonics, its a long story.

<<<Agreed. So maybe a separate discussion on how to
recruit players locally would be useful.>>>

Could be useful.

<<<So, how may events have you organized....>>>

Major snippage. That whole section is a pissing match
I am not going to get into on this forum. Sufficed to
say, I know enough people locally that if I were to go
to them and ask the for help putting on a con, I would
get prizes and plaques of some sort for the
winners...before I collected any entry fees. I feel I
am lucky in that regards. I have three organizations
I can draw support from should I choose to run a
Warrior Tournament. I am not going to start
apologizing for that...
If you don't have that level of your support in your
area outside of your own wallet, then that's something
you should be working on.

Todd

[Larry Essick]

> > How about someone
> > other than Jon and his player group chiming in. What are
> > other
> > people's expectations?>>
>
> Ok, Larry - you asked a bunch of questions of me and then ended with
this - which is it? lol
>
> If you like my take on recruiting and on prizes/money (two quite
separate things) just ask.

Oh, sorry Jon. I didn't mean to cut you off. I just meant that it
would be good if it weren't a two way discussion.

Todd sheds some light on things and his comments are helpful, but it
still represents what you have been doing.

I only meant that I hoped others would also chime in.

By all means, please continue to discuss as IMO it is helpful for
people who might want to give things a try themselves.

I'd like to know about recruiting in a separate thread. I agree that
it is an important precursor and hints on how to be successful can
only help.

I'd like to know your thoughts about prizes/money in this thread
because I think it is appropriate to the discussion of how to build a
presence at conventions and, if you are having more success with what
you are doing then tell us how to copy your success so that we can all
benefit.

Larry

[Ewan McNay]

JonCleaves@... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/20/2004 4:15:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> ewan.mcnay@... writes:
>
>
>> I know of no-one in either hobby who attends for prizes.
>> Literally no-one. I'd be surprised to meet someone such.>>
>
>
> Gosh, Ewan, I know tons...lol

Well, as I said, I could be wrong. So it seems. The heavens
have not yet fallen .

> I don't think the majority of NICT players play for any przie,
> nor did they play only for that back when the champ got an
> army.
>
> But our last place, next to last place, next to next to last
> place and best rookie awards often tip the scales when a
> player is making the hard decision to come. Especially when
> one or more of them is a complete paint set or a painted FW
> army...

Yes, I would agree that having painted armies as prizes would
motivate. If this is common, I may - do - have the wrong idea of
what is the norm as a prize.

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 5/20/2004 4:34:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
larryessick@... writes:

> I'd like to know about recruiting in a separate thread. I agree that
> it is an important precursor and hints on how to be
> successful can
> only help.>.

I'll start a recruiting thread asap. Comments on prizes I have made already on
this thread.

J

[Larry Essick]

> <snip> I feel I
> am lucky in that regards. I have three organizations
> I can draw support from should I choose to run a
> Warrior Tournament. I am not going to start
> apologizing for that...
> If you don't have that level of your support in your
> area outside of your own wallet, then that's something
> you should be working on.

OK. Then we have a point being made, which is that local support is
extremely helpful. I haven't had that and so find that I have to
limit my expectations with respect to prizes to what entry fees will
cover or what I can personally afford to invest.

I think that is a good point for this discussion.

Does anyone have experience in how to achieve this? If you don't have
local groups that you can tap for resources, how do you go about
getting support?

Larry

[Todd Schneider]

Well, In KC the last place prize is the DGS sponsored
"Last Place Award." It's a book, usually with the
theme of "How Great Generals Win" Or "Militray
Blunders of the Ancient World" or something like
that...It's very tongue in cheek, and gets a good
laugh.

Locally, Warrior Wise Kelly Wilkenson paints up a good
amount of lead for the "next to Last Place Award."
This year it was some Painted Celtic (?)
Chariotry..year before it was a painted Fast Warrior
New Kingdom Egyptian Army (which looks pretty good on
my shelf and the tabletop when I do bring it out).

And those are the Bottom place prizes locally.

--- Ewan McNay <ewan.mcnay@...> wrote:

---------------------------------


JonCleaves@... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/20/2004 4:15:31 PM Eastern
Daylight Time,
> ewan.mcnay@... writes:
>
>
>> I know of no-one in either hobby who attends for
prizes.
>> Literally no-one. I'd be surprised to meet someone
such.>>
>
>
> Gosh, Ewan, I know tons...lol

Well, as I said, I could be wrong. So it seems. The
heavens
have not yet fallen .

> I don't think the majority of NICT players play for
any przie,
> nor did they play only for that back when the champ
got an
> army.
>
> But our last place, next to last place, next to next
to last
> place and best rookie awards often tip the scales
when a
> player is making the hard decision to come.
Especially when
> one or more of them is a complete paint set or a
painted FW
> army...

Yes, I would agree that having painted armies as
prizes would
motivate. If this is common, I may - do - have the
wrong idea of
what is the norm as a prize.


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[Larry Essick]

> But our last place, next to last place, next to next to last place
and best rookie awards often tip the scales when a player is making
the hard decision to come. Especially when one or more of them is a
complete paint set or a painted FW army...
>
> Sure, not everyone, maybe not even the majority would be motivated
by such things. But if even one player shows up who would not and
plays 3-4 games of Warrior - all good.
>

Hmmm.

I tend to agree that the prospect of getting some painted figures does
appeal to some. And, I even agree that it might push some to make the
decision to attend.

So, how/where do you get things like paint sets or painted armies? Do
they come from people's collections or from local shops or dealers?
How do you go about getting something like that?

Larry

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 5/20/2004 4:45:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
larryessick@... writes:

> So, how/where do you get things like paint sets or painted armies? Do
> they come from people's collections or from local shops or
> dealers?
> How do you go about getting something like that?>>

I ask.

Sometimes, as with Kelly Wilkinson and Dave Smith we get people who offer up
painted lead as one of their ways of supporting Warrior.

Otherwise, I beat the bushes. Some modelers just have the pride of seeing their
work on display and then in the hands of someone appreciative who will use them.
Or, we can spend dollars given by supporting groups such as DGS or NASAMW on
painted figures.
I have not found it to be that arduous a task, actually.

J

J

[Larry Essick]

> > Scale and format decisions based on the desires of the peripheral
> > group and designed to get maximum support from them.>>
>
> Not what I would advise. I think you have to address the whole set
of possible attendees for scale and format. The locals don't need to
make as hard decisions about what has to be transported and how and
aren't making as big a time and money sacrifice, so the out-of-towners
desires as to scale and format should weigh heavily.
>

OK, but what if this leaves the local gamers out?

I face that problem, in a way, for Nashcon this year. The guys who
strong-armed me into a last minute push all want to play 25mm. Of
course, that probably hinders others who might make the trip.

So, do I go with the 4 guys wanting to play 25mm or the 2 guys wanting
to play 15mm? I went with the original set of guys figuring that they
were a lock to show up and play. (Of course, only time will tell if
that is what really happens!)

If Todd's observations are correct, then local support is much more
important -- and it seemed that this was the direction you were headed
initially. I'm curious how many of the PointCon folk felt like they
had traveled a long way to attend (and how many of them are old-timers
who go to cons for the friendship reasons).

> > 4. Some appropriate level of prize support.>>
>
> Everyone is motivated differently and prizes have their role. At
our last event we had several hundred dollars in prizes provided by
one vendor (through HAHMGS), one individual, two ancients societies
(NASAMW and TAPS) and the Dead General's Society.
>
> > 5. Stick to local or close by conventions to minimize
> > personal
> > expenses.>>
>
> Yes, I am not sure why this keeps coming up. I think it would be
rare for someone to do the leg work for a con AND travel. I think,
like with the Fifth Horsemen program, we should identify and help
those near cons who are willing to do the work. We should be looking
for someone in the vicinity of Nashcon, long term anyway.
>

Well, Jamie Gentry is in Tennessee and he is one of the Fifth
Horsemen. Hopefully he'll take on the challenge of building something
long-term at Nashcon.

Larry

[Larry Essick]

> Sometimes, as with Kelly Wilkinson and Dave Smith we get people who
offer up painted lead as one of their ways of supporting Warrior.
>
> Otherwise, I beat the bushes. Some modelers just have the pride of
seeing their work on display and then in the hands of someone
appreciative who will use them. Or, we can spend dollars given by
supporting groups such as DGS or NASAMW on painted figures.
> I have not found it to be that arduous a task, actually.
>

I get the impression that it is helpful to have a wide circle of
contacts -- or have someone in your organizing group who has the
contacts.

Larry

Nice Kraken! ;)

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Bard" <mwbard@r...>
wrote:
> A tournament may not be the best way to get people into Warrior...
>
> Last Saturday we up here at Deep Strike ran a 'Trojan War' scenario
using
> Warrior rules as the basis, with an adaption allowing divine
intervention
> and heroic activities (it IS the Trojan War after all!) All
together we had
> eight players, of which only two had ever played in a Warrior
tournament,
> and only 5 were actively working (or had) armies. This way people
had fun,
> got a feel for the rules and the hobby, and two people (so far) have
> expressed interest in getting their own armies (in addition to
those who
> already had or are). We're planning to run this at MIGS and HOT
LEAD (next
> year) and hopefully this will develop a new pool of players.
>
> Pictures of the battle can be found at
> http://www.deep-strike.com/events/trojanwarmegabattle.htm We are
going to
> post a copy of the rules used for the heroic combat and divine
intervention
> shortly.
>
> Michael Bard
> That Greek Hoplite Guy

[Larry Essick]

> A tournament may not be the best way to get people into Warrior...
>
> Last Saturday we up here at Deep Strike ran a 'Trojan War' scenario
using
> Warrior rules as the basis, with an adaption allowing divine
intervention
> and heroic activities (it IS the Trojan War after all!) All
together we had
> eight players, of which only two had ever played in a Warrior
tournament,
> and only 5 were actively working (or had) armies. This way people
had fun,
> got a feel for the rules and the hobby, and two people (so far) have
> expressed interest in getting their own armies (in addition to those
who
> already had or are). We're planning to run this at MIGS and HOT
LEAD (next
> year) and hopefully this will develop a new pool of players.

Thanks for the info Michael. I had initially thought to run a series
of scenarios at Nashcon featuring Viking raiders and the consequences
(each scenario following on from the first with adjustments made based
on how the first scenario played out).

I was actually influenced towards running a tournament by the prospect
of Kelly and Steven coming over from Missouri.

I guess that this is an important piece of the puzzle and probably
addressses a key point -- what is it that I'm trying to accomplish by
organizing an event? (Not an ego question, I just decided to make the
question first person to try to keep from accidentally offending
someone.)

If the goal is to recruit new people, maybe tournaments are not the
best way to go.

Anyone else have a perspective?

Larry

[Mike Bard]

We're planning to put them up and they should be up Monday or Tuesday. I'll
let the list know when they're up.

If anybody is in the Toronto area (or can get easy access to the Rochester
Ferry), there are plans to start up a Troy campaign where each player
creates their own hero and seeks for glory.

Michael Bard
That Greek Hoplite Guy

> Could you share your adaptations? Fantasy warrior will include a Greek
> Mythology list and special rules and I'd like to see what you came up
with... You
> can send them to me offline if you like..