Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

I participated in the "Trojan War" scenario at Deep Strike last Saturday and it
was a mountainous heap of fun. I got to be Nestor, and the Gods favoured me only
once, but it was just at the right moment...

Hector led the charge into the center of the Achean ranks himself, at the head
of a mighty column of Trojan warriors. Their course followed the edge of a
forest at a bend in the Simois. They could not go through it in close order
ranks and wheeled light chariots. When they rounded the bend Nestor's chariots
and Achean infantry were ready. Hector thought he would run the infantry down,
but Nestor saw that a flank attack would cancel Hector's charge. With two other
units following close behind him, Hector could not evade. Forced to withstand a
charge to his flanks by Nestor, and charged by infantry to his front, Hector's
unit broke. Athena, seeing Nestor's prowess rewarded him with a roll of 6, and
gave him a +1 bonus to the combat (or so I like to think)

I also learned that the river god likes chocolate. I placed a small portion of a
wunderbar on the ford and my LMI were allowed to cross in safety( the river god
player rolled 4 when he needed a 5 or 6)
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Bard
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] What does it take


A tournament may not be the best way to get people into Warrior...

Last Saturday we up here at Deep Strike ran a 'Trojan War' scenario using
Warrior rules as the basis, with an adaption allowing divine intervention
and heroic activities (it IS the Trojan War after all!) All together we had
eight players, of which only two had ever played in a Warrior tournament,
and only 5 were actively working (or had) armies. This way people had fun,
got a feel for the rules and the hobby, and two people (so far) have
expressed interest in getting their own armies (in addition to those who
already had or are). We're planning to run this at MIGS and HOT LEAD (next
year) and hopefully this will develop a new pool of players.

Pictures of the battle can be found at
http://www.deep-strike.com/events/trojanwarmegabattle.htm We are going to
post a copy of the rules used for the heroic combat and divine intervention
shortly.

Michael Bard
That Greek Hoplite Guy



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Todd Kaeser]

I'll chime in a little here.

Organizing a tournament is a fair amount of work. In the New England area we
have a solid core of gamers and we usually draw in a few "newbees" each
tournament.



While I was the coordinator - a position that is not appreciated by a long shot
- I worked with Jake (thanks again for all your support) over the years and we
were able to provide some excellent prizes. The last and final tournament I ran
Jake and I worked out a deal for figures and I painted them up for a 15mm 1200
point painted Republican Roman army. Dan Woyke won the army. Picture of this
army are on the Yahoogroups photo section - Crusades pics.



Robert Turnbull is currently coordinator and I'm sure I'll be volunteering to
paint up a few more prizes for the attendees.



I think there is a mix of why people attend cons. Some do for the prizes, but I
believe most do it for the "bullshitting" that Ewan mentioned. I know I do.
For me it's a time to see old buds, have a few friendly competitive battles and
enjoy some "me" time away from my busy life. It's great to get prizes, but it's
not why I attend. I would say that most WARRIOR gamers attend cons for similar
reasons.



Todd Kaeser



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Basically this entire thread is a load of crap. Sorry, no offense
ment.

To determine what brings people to cons is much more simple than
viewing your own ass in a mirror.

Most people show up because they like to play with toy soldiers. In
fact, I'd say this is the main motivation. All the other BS is just
so much gravy. If they had a good time, and have money to do so,
they will return. Good time is the key.

Of course people want to associate with others who have similar non-
mainstream entertainment desires. Wargaming in this sense is not far
removed from strip clubs or role players. Certainly the closer to
mainstream a game gets the more people on the societal curve
participate as the segment of interest and density of possible
participants increases. Bottom line: we are fringe dwellers in the
entertainment industry and need to recognize this before all else.
To increase our market beyond the current stable segment requires
more maintstreaming of our efforts.

Wanax
stater of the obvious

While I am not disagreeing with what you are saying, necessarily, but it
seems to me that this thread is focused on how to get more of those folks
who currently play with toy soldiers to show up – not try to convert others
from, say, a Star Trek convention to show up to play with toy soldiers…

I, for one, might find it a bit disconcerting to play across from some guy
in a cheap Klingon outfit …


-----Original Message-----
From: Wanax Andron [mailto:spocksleftball@...]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:04 AM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: What does it take

Basically this entire thread is a load of crap. Sorry, no offense
ment.

To determine what brings people to cons is much more simple than
viewing your own ass in a mirror.

Most people show up because they like to play with toy soldiers. In
fact, I'd say this is the main motivation. All the other BS is just
so much gravy. If they had a good time, and have money to do so,
they will return. Good time is the key.

Of course people want to associate with others who have similar non-
mainstream entertainment desires. Wargaming in this sense is not far
removed from strip clubs or role players. Certainly the closer to
mainstream a game gets the more people on the societal curve
participate as the segment of interest and density of possible
participants increases. Bottom line: we are fringe dwellers in the
entertainment industry and need to recognize this before all else.
To increase our market beyond the current stable segment requires
more maintstreaming of our efforts.

Wanax
stater of the obvious




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[Todd Schneider]

Maybe seeing yourself as a "Fringe Dweller" is
contributing the to the problem?

I do think the vast majority of people who attend cons
do do with the intent of having a good game and BS'ing
with their friends. But, I also like the idea of
everyone participating leaves with more than they
arrived with. Thats just a personal preference.




--- Wanax Andron <spocksleftball@...> wrote:

---------------------------------
Basically this entire thread is a load of crap.
Sorry, no offense
ment.

To determine what brings people to cons is much more
simple than viewing your own ass in a mirror.

Most people show up because they like to play with toy
soldiers. In fact, I'd say this is the main
motivation. All the other BS is just so much gravy.
If they had a good time, and have money to do so,
they will return. Good time is the key.

Of course people want to associate with others who
have similar non-mainstream entertainment desires.
Wargaming in this sense is not far removed from strip
clubs or role players. Certainly the closer to
mainstream a game gets the more people on the societal
curve participate as the segment of interest and
density of possible participants increases. Bottom
line: we are fringe dwellers in the entertainment
industry and need to recognize this before all else.
To increase our market beyond the current stable
segment requires more maintstreaming of our efforts.

Wanax
stater of the obvious


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[Jeff Zorn]

Howdy,

Motto of the Klingon Wargaming Federation: "It is a good die today!"*

The die be carved from the skull of a Kardasian.

Jeff Zorn

At 10:28 AM 5/21/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>…
>
>I, for one, might find it a bit disconcerting to play across from some guy
>in a cheap Klingon outfit …


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mike Bard]

A draft version is now up for semi-public amusement at
http://www.deep-strike.com/features/troyrules.htm. Note that there are
currently no links to it as the website is undergoing a major revision. In
other words, don't add links to this to your own web sites as the file will
almost certainly move and be renamed in the near future.

Any comments/thoughts are welcome.

One final note: I didn't write these, they were written by Christian
Cameron.

Michael Bard
That Greek Hoplite Guy

> Last Saturday we up here at Deep Strike ran a 'Trojan War' scenario using
> Warrior rules as the basis, with an adaption allowing divine intervention
> and heroic activities (it IS the Trojan War after all!) >>
>
> Could you share your adaptations? Fantasy warrior will include a Greek
> Mythology list and special rules and I'd like to see what you came up
with... You
> can send them to me offline if you like..
>
> Jon

thread must have changed since I stoped reading replies after around
number 15. The jist I got was more whining about making cons work.
Appologies if the thread had moved on. BTW, I'l love to play against
a cheap klingon ;)

Wanax

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Scott & Tracie McCoppin"
<sctrac@p...> wrote:
> While I am not disagreeing with what you are saying, necessarily,
but it
> seems to me that this thread is focused on how to get more of those
folks
> who currently play with toy soldiers to show up – not try to
convert others
> from, say, a Star Trek convention to show up to play with toy
soldiers…
>
> I, for one, might find it a bit disconcerting to play across from
some guy
> in a cheap Klingon outfit …
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wanax Andron [mailto:spocksleftball@y...]
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:04 AM
> To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: What does it take
>
> Basically this entire thread is a load of crap. Sorry, no offense
> ment.
>
> To determine what brings people to cons is much more simple than
> viewing your own ass in a mirror.
>
> Most people show up because they like to play with toy soldiers. In
> fact, I'd say this is the main motivation. All the other BS is just
> so much gravy. If they had a good time, and have money to do so,
> they will return. Good time is the key.
>
> Of course people want to associate with others who have similar non-
> mainstream entertainment desires. Wargaming in this sense is not
far
> removed from strip clubs or role players. Certainly the closer to
> mainstream a game gets the more people on the societal curve
> participate as the segment of interest and density of possible
> participants increases. Bottom line: we are fringe dwellers in the
> entertainment industry and need to recognize this before all else.
> To increase our market beyond the current stable segment requires
> more maintstreaming of our efforts.
>
> Wanax
> stater of the obvious
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
> click here
>
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of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

They do....memories ;)

Wanax

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Todd Schneider <thresh1642@s...>
wrote:
> Maybe seeing yourself as a "Fringe Dweller" is
> contributing the to the problem?
>
> I do think the vast majority of people who attend cons
> do do with the intent of having a good game and BS'ing
> with their friends. But, I also like the idea of
> everyone participating leaves with more than they
> arrived with. Thats just a personal preference.
>
>
>
>
> --- Wanax Andron <spocksleftball@y...> wrote:
>
> ---------------------------------
> Basically this entire thread is a load of crap.
> Sorry, no offense
> ment.
>
> To determine what brings people to cons is much more
> simple than viewing your own ass in a mirror.
>
> Most people show up because they like to play with toy
> soldiers. In fact, I'd say this is the main
> motivation. All the other BS is just so much gravy.
> If they had a good time, and have money to do so,
> they will return. Good time is the key.
>
> Of course people want to associate with others who
> have similar non-mainstream entertainment desires.
> Wargaming in this sense is not far removed from strip
> clubs or role players. Certainly the closer to
> mainstream a game gets the more people on the societal
> curve participate as the segment of interest and
> density of possible participants increases. Bottom
> line: we are fringe dwellers in the entertainment
> industry and need to recognize this before all else.
> To increase our market beyond the current stable
> segment requires more maintstreaming of our efforts.
>
> Wanax
> stater of the obvious
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarriorRules/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.

[Jake Kovel]

In a message dated 5/20/2004 4:13:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
larryessick@... writes:

> As a vendor, how does a person go about working with you and other
> vendors to get prize support? Is this something that
> vendors are
> generally reluctant to do?

Most people who want support for a con just contact me and ask what I can do. I
offer a wide variety of support. Typically, people will ask to purchase gift
certificates, which a sell to tournament directors at a substantial discount.
Some ask for gift certificates with no cost attached. I provide two types of
these, discount certificates and cash certificates. The dicount certificates (%
off purchase up to $) are flexible and available. For straight cash
certificates I usually provide only limited support and small denominations (I
am a for-profit business). Sometimes tournament directors will buy lead for
prizes. I handle this the same way I do purchased certificates (substantial
discount).

People do not seem to have a problem asking. Many, however, think we are
rolling in money and will happily give out substantial prizes at the drop of a
hat. That will generally not happen.
Jacob

[Kelly Wilkinson]

as opposed to an expensive outfit? :)



I, for one, might find it a bit disconcerting to play across from some guy
in a cheap Klingon outfit …





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Larry Essick]

> Basically this entire thread is a load of crap. Sorry, no offense
> ment.

But, offense taken. We spend thousands of words on what should be
done to improve gaming opportunities and attract people to the hobby.
Yet, when we try to put together some combined experiences to help
with event building it becomes a load of crap.

I'd suggest you make the effort to actually go to an established
convention where there is no Warrior presence and see how difficult it
is to actually set up and run a successful event. Then, when you have
some personal experience to share you can be judgemental.

> To determine what brings people to cons is much more simple than
> viewing your own ass in a mirror.
>
> Most people show up because they like to play with toy soldiers. In
> fact, I'd say this is the main motivation. All the other BS is just
> so much gravy. If they had a good time, and have money to do so,
> they will return. Good time is the key.

Well, that is the word according to Boyd. But, like large numbers of
us, Boyd lives in a universe of his own making and colored by his own
delusions of the truth.

I can, as well as Boyd has, make statements about what most people do.
They are as meaningless. The only important contribution in this is
what motivates Boyd.

> Of course people want to associate with others who have similar non-
> mainstream entertainment desires. Wargaming in this sense is not
far
> removed from strip clubs or role players. Certainly the closer to
> mainstream a game gets the more people on the societal curve
> participate as the segment of interest and density of possible
> participants increases. Bottom line: we are fringe dwellers in the
> entertainment industry and need to recognize this before all else.
> To increase our market beyond the current stable segment requires
> more maintstreaming of our efforts.

Well, Boyd, the effort to become more mainstream may be part of what
this thread should be addressing. I, however, do not consider us to
be fringe dwellers. The term implies that there is something
inherently wrong about the hobby.

I believe that it would be difficult to define what is mainstream, but
whatever constitutes mainstream also, IMO, includes our hobby.

What I am curious about is the personal success and failure
experiences of people who have tried to run events at existing
conventions or who have tried to establish their own events outside of
conventions. The purpose is to build a lessons-learned file that can
help others to be successful.

To that end, I consider your entire attitude entirely offensive -- and
entirely inappropriate.

Larry

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Well Boyd,

There's always Starfleet Battles. Don't mess with the Vudar as they will mess
you up! Or for that matter so will a good ISC!

kelly

Wanax Andron <spocksleftball@...> wrote:
thread must have changed since I stoped reading replies after around
number 15. The jist I got was more whining about making cons work.
Appologies if the thread had moved on. BTW, I'l love to play against
a cheap klingon ;)

Wanax

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Scott & Tracie McCoppin"
<sctrac@p...> wrote:
> While I am not disagreeing with what you are saying, necessarily,
but it
> seems to me that this thread is focused on how to get more of those
folks
> who currently play with toy soldiers to show up – not try to
convert others
> from, say, a Star Trek convention to show up to play with toy
soldiers…
>
> I, for one, might find it a bit disconcerting to play across from
some guy
> in a cheap Klingon outfit …
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wanax Andron [mailto:spocksleftball@y...]
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:04 AM
> To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: What does it take
>
> Basically this entire thread is a load of crap. Sorry, no offense
> ment.
>
> To determine what brings people to cons is much more simple than
> viewing your own ass in a mirror.
>
> Most people show up because they like to play with toy soldiers. In
> fact, I'd say this is the main motivation. All the other BS is just
> so much gravy. If they had a good time, and have money to do so,
> they will return. Good time is the key.
>
> Of course people want to associate with others who have similar non-
> mainstream entertainment desires. Wargaming in this sense is not
far
> removed from strip clubs or role players. Certainly the closer to
> mainstream a game gets the more people on the societal curve
> participate as the segment of interest and density of possible
> participants increases. Bottom line: we are fringe dwellers in the
> entertainment industry and need to recognize this before all else.
> To increase our market beyond the current stable segment requires
> more maintstreaming of our efforts.
>
> Wanax
> stater of the obvious
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
> click here
>
<http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12906cn0c/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=
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companio
> n.yahoo.com>
>
>
> _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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>
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subject=Unsubscribe>
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of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Larry Essick]

> People do not seem to have a problem asking. Many, however, think
we are rolling in money and will happily give out substantial prizes
at the drop of a hat. That will generally not happen.
>

Thanks Jake.

I think it is important for a vendor, such as yourself, to make these
points. They are ones that Jon or I could have made, but coming
straight from "the horse's mouth" carries a lot more weight.

This is a point I've made in other forums -- vendors must get some
profit at least for the support they provide. We cannot ask them to
have bottomless pockets.

Your comments about purchasing at discounts really hits the point that
I would have made. This is why I had previously said that an event
can only give out in prizes what it has received in support.

As Jon and Todd's posts point out, not everyone is lucky enough to
have outside contributors. This is why I've mentioned that in
planning an event, people have to see what income they expect from
table fees -- this is probably the only budget that they will have to
work from.

Very helpful post.

Larry

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, <larryessick@b...> wrote:
> > Basically this entire thread is a load of crap. Sorry, no offense
> > ment.
>
> But, offense taken. We spend thousands of words on what should be
> done to improve gaming opportunities and attract people to the
hobby.
> Yet, when we try to put together some combined experiences to help
> with event building it becomes a load of crap.

Mainly it is all mental masterbation. I stated the obvious. We
don't do our hobby because of some higher calling, and it is not easy
getting people together soley because our hobby base of support is
already thin and at fiscal capasity. Make current working cons work,
and stop trying to be johnny appleseed.


>
> I'd suggest you make the effort to actually go to an established
> convention where there is no Warrior presence and see how difficult
it
> is to actually set up and run a successful event. Then, when you
have
> some personal experience to share you can be judgemental.

Stop being defensive Larry, I said no offense. This means, in
summary this is a waste of time. Didn't say you were a waste of
time. I have developed and held tournaments often, but like my
experience is that I'm the one doing the work. As long as I do, it
works. doi!


>
> > To determine what brings people to cons is much more simple than
> > viewing your own ass in a mirror.
> >
> > Most people show up because they like to play with toy soldiers.
In
> > fact, I'd say this is the main motivation. All the other BS is
just
> > so much gravy. If they had a good time, and have money to do so,
> > they will return. Good time is the key.


>
> Well, that is the word according to Boyd. But, like large numbers
of
> us, Boyd lives in a universe of his own making and colored by his
own
> delusions of the truth.


Yes I do live in a world of delusions of truth. Better, I think,
than a world of delusions of granduer. You are absolutely crack
smoking if you think that ancients wargaming will ever be mainstream
enough to attract more than a marginal fringe. Most that are
involved in our hobby are actually aware of this and to some degree
either accept it or prefer it. I certainly would be less likely to
play in a "pop" tournament like Risk, and perhaps what attracts me
and many other Warrior gamers is the increased complexity over such
games.


>
> I can, as well as Boyd has, make statements about what most people
do.
> They are as meaningless. The only important contribution in this is
> what motivates Boyd.

I'm somewhat confused but happy you understand that making me happy
is job one. However, you don't have to take a scientific survey to
understand what is popular and why. The larger the audience the
lower to average audence capasity to understand complex instructions
and/or motivations. The higher the ability to understand, the
greater the need for play.


>
> > Of course people want to associate with others who have similar
non-
> > mainstream entertainment desires. Wargaming in this sense is not
> far
> > removed from strip clubs or role players. Certainly the closer to
> > mainstream a game gets the more people on the societal curve
> > participate as the segment of interest and density of possible
> > participants increases. Bottom line: we are fringe dwellers in
the
> > entertainment industry and need to recognize this before all else.
> > To increase our market beyond the current stable segment requires
> > more maintstreaming of our efforts.
>
> Well, Boyd, the effort to become more mainstream may be part of what
> this thread should be addressing. I, however, do not consider us to
> be fringe dwellers. The term implies that there is something
> inherently wrong about the hobby.

Well this is by your reconing. I agree that if you want to
mainstream the game somehow (doubtful effort) you will generate more
users, but this may have the consequence of loosing the current users
who quickly become bored and disalusioned. Fringe means not in the
center. A radical right wing republican is a fringe element on the
political spectrum, and a heroin addict is a fringe drug user. This
doesn't mean the politician or the herion addict have enherently
ascribed value judgements placed on them prior to our individual
interpretations. Fringe simply means on the edge; not part of the
majority on the bell curve if you will.


>
> I believe that it would be difficult to define what is mainstream,
but
> whatever constitutes mainstream also, IMO, includes our hobby.

Yeah sure. Like Hip Hop music, the Ford Focus, McDonalds, and Disney
World? Wargaming is as mainstream as butterfly husbandry. There are
approximately 5000 wargamers of miniatures worldwide by my latest
swag, while I believe the world population numbers in the billions.
Where do wargaming and Whitney Huston share markets?


>
> What I am curious about is the personal success and failure
> experiences of people who have tried to run events at existing
> conventions or who have tried to establish their own events outside
of
> conventions. The purpose is to build a lessons-learned file that
can
> help others to be successful.

Fine, then begin with what is our probable population base, where are
they, and what level of disposable income will they have to persue
the hobby. Once you have this, the rest is easy. The hobby will not
support many more efforts than currently available. Even some of the
current events are haphazzard affairs that will not exist in the near
future. I do not say stop trying, but I do say start with a better
understanding of the population of which you speak. Do some research.

>
> To that end, I consider your entire attitude entirely offensive --
and
> entirely inappropriate.

You opinion is noted in my log. Of course, it doesn't change my
opinion, and I was born inappropriate. You come with a base
understanding of the demographic and we'll get serious on meeting
your goals, but otherwise it is just a random sampling of the
successes of individuals with variable levels of skill and will.

Sorry, but there it is
Wanax

No I don't have time to do the research for you.