Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Mark Stone]

Jon,

6.163 states that "a charge declaration includes the charging body, the
tartet(s) of the charge, and whether or not the charge will be impetuous. By
declaring the target(s), any wheel by the charger will be defined."

My question, then, is what constitutes the "target"? Is the target a body or an
element? I ask because 6.163 makes it pretty clear you can't just wheel because
you want to, but only if necessary to contact the target.

This situation comes up most frequently when a small cavalry unit is in front of
a large block of archers and would prefer to wheel and contact it at the end of
said archer unit rather than just barreling straight ahead into the middle of
the unit. People do in fact make this kind of wheel all the time, but I'm now
wondering if it is in fact legal to do so?

Is target the nearest part of the body you can reach, or is it any element in
the target body you choose to target that you can reach? If the latter, does it
matter whether the target body is itself charging?


-Mark Stone

[joncleaves]

<<My question, then, is what constitutes the "target"? Is the target a body or
an
element? >>

Body.

<<This situation comes up most frequently when a small cavalry unit is in front
of
a large block of archers and would prefer to wheel and contact it at the end of
said archer unit rather than just barreling straight ahead into the middle of
the unit. People do in fact make this kind of wheel all the time, but I'm now
wondering if it is in fact legal to do so?>>

It is legal to wheel, but no more than one has to to put the target in the path
and not on the corner further from the target.

<<Is target the nearest part of the body you can reach, or is it any element in
the target body you choose to target that you can reach?>>

The nearest part of the body you can reach.

<< If the latter, does it
matter whether the target body is itself charging?>>

No, because you won't *know* that at declaration.

J


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ed Forbes]

Jon,

I would suggest that this topic deserves an example in the revised rules as this
is a very common situation and not obvious.

Not being able to choose the point on a line for a charge with a wheel, if you
can contact the line without a wheel, needs to be highlighted as this is a major
point, especially against missile troops.

Ed

-- JonCleaves@... wrote:


<<My question, then, is what constitutes the "target"? Is the target a body or
an
element? >>

Body.

<<This situation comes up most frequently when a small cavalry unit is in front
of
a large block of archers and would prefer to wheel and contact it at the end of
said archer unit rather than just barreling straight ahead into the middle of
the unit. People do in fact make this kind of wheel all the time, but I'm now
wondering if it is in fact legal to do so?>>

It is legal to wheel, but no more than one has to to put the target in the path
and not on the corner further from the target.

<<Is target the nearest part of the body you can reach, or is it any element in
the target body you choose to target that you can reach?>>

The nearest part of the body you can reach.

<< If the latter, does it
matter whether the target body is itself charging?>>

No, because you won't *know* that at declaration.

J


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[joncleaves]

Ok, I will admit I do not see the issue, but I will look at it.

-----Original Message-----
From: eforbes100@... <eforbes100@...>
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:09:37 GMT
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] wheeling charges




Jon,

I would suggest that this topic deserves an example in the revised rules as this
is a very common situation and not obvious.

Not being able to choose the point on a line for a charge with a wheel, if you
can contact the line without a wheel, needs to be highlighted as this is a major
point, especially against missile troops.

Ed

-- JonCleaves@... wrote:


<<My question, then, is what constitutes the "target"? Is the target a body or
an
element? >>

Body.

<<This situation comes up most frequently when a small cavalry unit is in front
of
a large block of archers and would prefer to wheel and contact it at the end of
said archer unit rather than just barreling straight ahead into the middle of
the unit. People do in fact make this kind of wheel all the time, but I'm now
wondering if it is in fact legal to do so?>>

It is legal to wheel, but no more than one has to to put the target in the path
and not on the corner further from the target.

<<Is target the nearest part of the body you can reach, or is it any element in
the target body you choose to target that you can reach?>>

The nearest part of the body you can reach.

<< If the latter, does it
matter whether the target body is itself charging?>>

No, because you won't *know* that at declaration.

J


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[John Murphy]

Jon,

Is all this a rules change?

In the past when I have asked on this list, I believe you have
stated that I can declare a charge path rather than a specific enemy
body as a target - and that in fact that charge path can include
multiple enemy bodies so that, for instance, if the first one
potentially contacted evades exposing its neighbor to a flank charge
then the other body can be targeted.

Don't remember the particulars - it was a while back and came up in
response to game events and other folks bringing up this kind of
charge declaration discussion.

But pretty certain that was your take on it at the time.

If I am sort of correct here, or not quite right here, can you go
into a bit of detail enough to make sure I understand, and can hold
my own if challenged on it?

John

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
>
>
> <<My question, then, is what constitutes the "target"? Is the
target a body or an
> element? >>
>
> Body.
>
> <<This situation comes up most frequently when a small cavalry
unit is in front of
> a large block of archers and would prefer to wheel and contact it
at the end of
> said archer unit rather than just barreling straight ahead into
the middle of
> the unit. People do in fact make this kind of wheel all the time,
but I'm now
> wondering if it is in fact legal to do so?>>
>
> It is legal to wheel, but no more than one has to to put the
target in the path and not on the corner further from the target.
>
> <<Is target the nearest part of the body you can reach, or is it
any element in
> the target body you choose to target that you can reach?>>
>
> The nearest part of the body you can reach.
>
> << If the latter, does it
> matter whether the target body is itself charging?>>
>
> No, because you won't *know* that at declaration.
>
> J
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 4/4/2005 18:19:02 Central Daylight Time,
jjmurphy@... writes:

Is all this a rules change?>>


No....


<<In the past when I have asked on this list, I believe you have
stated that I can declare a charge path rather than a specific enemy
body as a target - >>

When you declare on a target, the declaration also counts against all enemy
in the path - that much is true.

<<and that in fact that charge path can include
multiple enemy bodies so that, for instance, if the first one
potentially contacted evades exposing its neighbor to a flank charge
then the other body can be targeted.>>

True.

But none of that changes my answer to the other question, which was about
wheeling.

Jon







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ed Forbes]

Jon,

The post from Mark on 4-3,and your reply on 4-5, attached below, led me to the
post on wheeling.

Ed

-- Mark Stone <mark@...> wrote:


Jon,

6.163 states that "a charge declaration includes the charging body, the
tartet(s) of the charge, and whether or not the charge will be impetuous. By
declaring the target(s), any wheel by the charger will be defined."

My question, then, is what constitutes the "target"? Is the target a body or an
element? I ask because 6.163 makes it pretty clear you can't just wheel because
you want to, but only if necessary to contact the target.

This situation comes up most frequently when a small cavalry unit is in front of
a large block of archers and would prefer to wheel and contact it at the end of
said archer unit rather than just barreling straight ahead into the middle of
the unit. People do in fact make this kind of wheel all the time, but I'm now
wondering if it is in fact legal to do so?

Is target the nearest part of the body you can reach, or is it any element in
the target body you choose to target that you can reach? If the latter, does it
matter whether the target body is itself charging?


-Mark Stone

---------------

reply by Jon:

<<My question, then, is what constitutes the "target"? Is the
target a body or an
element? >>

Body.

<<This situation comes up most frequently when a small cavalry unit is in
front of
a large block of archers and would prefer to wheel and contact it at the end
of
said archer unit rather than just barreling straight ahead into the middle of
the unit. People do in fact make this kind of wheel all the time, but I'm now
wondering if it is in fact legal to do so?>>

It is legal to wheel, but no more than one has to to put the target in the path
and not on the corner further from the target.

<<Is target the nearest part of the body you can reach, or is it any
element in
the target body you choose to target that you can reach?>>

The nearest part of the body you can reach.

<< If the latter, does it
matter whether the target body is itself charging?>>

No, because you won't *know* that at declaration.

J


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