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X Rule: Reform

 
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Chris Bump
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: X Rule: Reform


In a message dated 09/03/2002 10:54:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
JonCleaves@... writes:

<< This for those who don't like the way it works now.

X6.19 REFORM. Instead of making an approach, counter or retirement move, a
steady regular unit may reform. To reform, a unit must be in block. One
element in the front rank stays precisely in place. This element is either
the center element (in a unit with an odd number of elements in the front
rank) or one of the two center elements (in a unit with an even number of
elements in the front rank). All other elements may be arranged in any way
so long as the end result is a legal block formation. Reforming counts as a
complete move of the appropriate type (approach, counter or retirement) and
all other rules for that type move apply. No other movement or maneuver may
be combined with reforming.
>>
Wow,

Did you just think that up? Pretty clever. I would have to say that the
above x-rule solves just about all the issues with regards to regular
flexibility.

Chris

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joncleaves
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 6:54 pm    Post subject: X Rule: Reform


This for those who don't like the way it works now.

X6.19 REFORM. Instead of making an approach, counter or retirement move, a
steady regular unit may reform. To reform, a unit must be in block. One
element in the front rank stays precisely in place. This element is either the
center element (in a unit with an odd number of elements in the front rank) or
one of the two center elements (in a unit with an even number of elements in the
front rank). All other elements may be arranged in any way so long as the end
result is a legal block formation. Reforming counts as a complete move of the
appropriate type (approach, counter or retirement) and all other rules for that
type move apply. No other movement or maneuver may be combined with reforming.


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joncleaves
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 9:02 pm    Post subject: Re: X Rule: Reform


<<Did you just think that up? Pretty clever.>>

I have my moments...

<< I would have to say that the
above x-rule solves just about all the issues with regards to regular
flexibility.>>

If it ends the thread, it will have performed beyond my wildest dreams....lol

J


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Ewan McNay
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: X Rule: Reform


No, wait.

An 11-element regular unit can only be in one of two formations....

;))

E

On Tue, 3 Sep 2002 JonCleaves@... wrote:

> <<Did you just think that up? Pretty clever.>>
>
> I have my moments...
>
> << I would have to say that the
> above x-rule solves just about all the issues with regards to regular
flexibility.>>
>
> If it ends the thread, it will have performed beyond my wildest dreams....lol
>
> J
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
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> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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>
>

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joncleaves
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: X Rule: Reform


<<An 11-element regular unit can only be in one of two formations....>>

Yup. And using reform you can move between them all you like... you hoser


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joncleaves
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 10:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Re: X Rule: Reform


X rules being used in tourneys is not up to me or FHE. However I can tell
you, because I know the NASAMW Warrior umpire real well, that they won't be
using them anytime soon.

I might consider putting an x-rule into the main rules as long as it did not
constitute a change. My number one criteria for what is a rules 'change' is
something that would make a particular troop type or army list 'worse' than
it is in the current rules + Warrior list. I do not think Reform falls into
this category and would be willing to consider, after playtesting, adding it
to the rules in a later printing as i would any x-rule that only added to and
did not 'change' the rules.

Lots of ifs there.

Now, saying that after I wrote an x-rule that solved the problem, that my
solution isn't good enough because it is not a change to the published rules
seems somewhat ungrateful to me. I already said we liked the rules as
written and the one or two voices of dissent on this issue are nowhere near
enough to get me to even consider changing my mind. Are there other rules
authors out there who will write experimental rules during an ongoing thread
to satisfy the needs of all customers? I think you got it pretty good and
ought to be happy with what you got.

As for wanting to play the same game everyone else is, that is what the
rulebook is for. If I made changes on a whim based on the last guy who had
an issue, we'd have chaos (and look like some other companies...lol) and you
would NOT know what game you were playing when you got to the con.

Ed, it isn't that I didn't hear what you said. It isn't that I didn't
understand what you said. It's that I don't agree with what you said. You
need to see that, or you are going to frustrate yourself trying to reexplain
to me something I already understand quite well.

I think reform works for your basement and you can skip the 10E units when
you come to the tourney and do just fine.. :)

Jon



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Ed Forbes
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 2:18 am    Post subject: Re: X Rule: Reform


It is a great X rule Jon. It solves the major problems I see in the
published rules on the strange restrictions on the ability for regs to
maneuver as contrasted to irregs.

The main problem is that X rules are not a change to the published rules.
They are little different than house rules. Calling them optional rules
does not change their nature.

Are we to go back to the bad old days of not knowing which set of rules
we will be playing in a tournament? X rules change the nature of the
game in both major and minor ways.

I still have bad memories of going to tournaments billed as WRG 7th and
finding out when I got there ( or worse, in the middle of a game ) that
there were important changes made with house rules and that they were not
playing the rules as published or officially amended.

I have never been a fan of house rules as they just confuse the issue.
Now if X rules are to be considered a form of play test with the better
ones to be incorporated later into the published set of rules as official
amendments, this as they say would be a horse of a different color.

I would still be opposed to the use of X rules in tournaments as it is
unfair to those of us who prefer to play rules as published

Ed

On Tue, 03 Sep 2002 11:54:02 -0400 JonCleaves@... writes:
> This for those who don't like the way it works now.
>
> X6.19 REFORM. Instead of making an approach, counter or retirement
> move, a steady regular unit may reform. To reform, a unit must be
> in block. One element in the front rank stays precisely in place.
> This element is either the center element (in a unit with an odd
> number of elements in the front rank) or one of the two center
> elements (in a unit with an even number of elements in the front
> rank). All other elements may be arranged in any way so long as the
> end result is a legal block formation. Reforming counts as a
> complete move of the appropriate type (approach, counter or
> retirement) and all other rules for that type move apply. No other
> movement or maneuver may be combined with reforming.
>

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Mark Mallard
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: X Rule: Reform


In a message dated 9/3/02 5:36:28 PM GMT Daylight Time, cncbump@...
writes:


> In a message dated 09/03/2002 10:54:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
> JonCleaves@... writes:
>
> << This for those who don't like the way it works now.
>
> X6.19 REFORM. Instead of making an approach, counter or retirement move, a
> steady regular unit may reform. To reform, a unit must be in block. One
> element in the front rank stays precisely in place. This element is either
> the center element (in a unit with an odd number of elements in the front
> rank) or one of the two center elements (in a unit with an even number of
> elements in the front rank). All other elements may be arranged in any way
> so long as the end result is a legal block formation. Reforming counts as
> a
> complete move of the appropriate type (approach, counter or retirement) and
> all other rules for that type move apply. No other movement or maneuver
> may
> be combined with reforming.
> >>
> Wow,
>
> Did you just think that up? Pretty clever. I would have to say that the
> above x-rule solves just about all the issues with regards to regular
> flexibility.
>
> Chris

yes its very good - should be part of the main rules.

mark mallard


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Ed Forbes
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: X Rule: Reform


Hi Jon,

I do not want you to think I am ungrateful for the time you put in on the
rules. Overall, they are excellent and the amount of time you put into
them is extraordinary.

That said, x rules do not in themselves solve any problems as x rules are
not part of the main body of rules.

At this point I will take the hope that your x rule will someday be
incorporated into the main set of rules as it will go toward fixing what
I see to be a problem, ie. that reg troops are discriminated against and
forbidden maneuvers and formations that are allowed to irregs.

I realize that you are quite happy to continue to let irregs have more
tactical flexibility in unit formations than do regs and we can continue
to agree to disagree on this issue. We can also continue to agree to
disagree on if such discrimination does in fact exist. I am fully aware
that you are quite happy with the current formation restrictions on regs.

Onward and upward,

Ed

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joncleaves
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: Re: X Rule: Reform


In a message dated 9/4/2002 02:17:30 Central Daylight Time,
eforbes100@... writes:


> I realize that you are quite happy to continue to let irregs have more
> tactical flexibility in unit formations than do regs >>


Man, you don't quit, do you. I am happy to do no such thing. I would really
rather not be talking about this, but I do need the new guys to be aware that
neither I nor FHE agree that what Ed says above is true. Regs have much more
tactical flexibility than irregs.

and we can continue>
> to agree to disagree on this issue.>>

*THAT* I sign up for. Please don't put any further words in my mouth as to
what I am 'happy to do'. Thanks!


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