Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Dave Markowitz]

I think that this army would do very well in an open tourney setting, particularly in 25mm. Some on the only B pike armed elephants in the game, and some very good support. Has anyone seen these run in 25mm. I'm surprised that we have not seen this list played more.

[joncleaves]

I agree with you, Dave, and have considered it. I have only played against it and only in 15mm. Don Coon has played it as has Bill Low. Bill will probably have a lot of insight for you, despite the scale.

J

[Mark Stone]

Yes, Ghaznavids has a nice configuration for the elephants, and a nice quantity, too. I've found myself wondering if Alexandrian Imperial players aren't going to find that 4 elephants is too few and the extra Indian elephants come at too high a price in other required troops.

Ghaznavids is pretty complicated to put together correctly, however. The cav can't be elephant-proof, and the foot is expensive and doesn't operate well outside the cover of the elephants. There's a sweet list in there somewhere, but I can't say I see the right mix myself.

Greg Hauser has some substantial experience with Ghaznavids. Not sure I've seen anyone else running it in Lancaster.


-Mark Stone

[Todd Kaeser]

Back before the rewriting of the lists I ran Ghaznavid with fair success. The elephants were awesome, but the cav had some difficulties being irregular (lights) and all of it being non-elephant proof. You couldn't combine your arms into an effective strike force - still can't w/ the cav and the elephants. The old list also did not allow for effective foot to run w/ the elephants - either the HI Jls,B,Sh (available, in fact required in today's lists) or Irreg C LMI Jls,sh (nothing special).

However, in the new rewrite you can run the LHI LTS or Jls, B, Sh guys in the gaps and flanks of the elephants. They are expensive, but pretty solid troops. I've played w/ the list a few times and running 2-3 of the LHI troops w/ the elephants is pretty effective. There is still the cav wing and the elephant wing, but at least now there is a bridge for the gap between the two.

[Frank Gilson]

I've pointed out the Ghaznavid list and fiddled with it...mocking it up for play in 15mm.

It's realllly awkward.

You get no points saving efficiencies. The HI and LHI are all fully armored, the Reg LI all must have shields (and none have sling or JLS), the ghulam cavalry must all have shields. The elephants have a 3rd crewman, which makes them cost more yet doesn't provide enough benefit.

You can get some camel proof cavalry, but no camels. The main body of cavalry are not elephant proof.

Still, the list is worth experimenting with, and in the hands of a skilled player would repay the effort. It's got troops that can occupy and exploit terrain, as well as the elephants to combine with regular missile armed foot to attack in the open.

Frank

[Frank Gilson]

Here's a sample purchase of Ghaznavid, with reasoning.

CinC B w/PA on Irr B JLS/P El & Irr B El JLS/P/B 175
Sub B w/P on Irr B JLS/P El & Irr B El JLS/P/B 115
Sub similar 115
2 units of 2 Irr B El JLS/P/B 242
2 units of 6 Reg A/B HC L,B,Sh 182
16 Reg C HI JLS,B,Sh 122
12 Irr B LC JLS,B,Sh/B 103
8 Reg C LI B,Sh 42
4 units of 8 Reg B LHI LTS,B,Sh 296
16 Irr D LI B 41
12 Irr C LI B,Sh/B 55
2 units of 4 Reg B LI CB,Sh 60
8 Reg B LI B,Sh 50 = 1598
19 units, 3 commands, 35 scouting

That's all the generals on elephants, and all but one elephant, for a total of 10 in five units. Don't run any generals as cavalry, they cost too much and provide too little benefit that way.

I've kept the ghulams and infantry as regulars. I view the HC as support troops for one flank, not as any kind of attacking force.

The attack line is all five elephant units with the 2E Reg B LHI units in the gaps between elephants. Those foot units primary duty is to draw away missle fire.

The regular LI all force march to seize table space and permit you to direct the elephant line to the proper place.

The HI unit should hang off one end of the elephant line, helping to draw shooting away from a nearby elephant unit...the other end of the line can use a LI unit for that purpose.

Your remaining lights and the HC skirmish on your most open flank.

[Ewan McNay]

My initial list is fairly similar to Frank's:

4 El units - 2 Subs in 3E, CinC in 3E, 2E. Take all El as IrrB of course.
Minimal HC, and minimal Ghaz infantry downgraded to Reg D. One unit of LC, all the Dailami LHI (4E, 2 x 2E), 2 x 2E Dailami LI, then round out with more LI and *maybe* a third HC unit; I might sacrifice one elephant for that third HC unit, but might not.

So why don't we see it more often? My guess is that it has been too easy to skirmish the elephants and kill the rest. The LHI, as elephant support troops, make that harder but maybe not impossible.