Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[scott holder]

Thanks to the, drum roll please, 54 Warrior players who attended Hcon this year. On Saturday, we had, another drum roll please, 48 players playing in the 3 events (NICT Post-Cut, 15mm Open, 25mm Open).

We have not had those kinds of numbers since the days of TOG back when we were at the Penn Harris and TOG was the *only* game in town.

scott

[Ewan McNay]

On which note, kinda but not really: of the Warrior tournament crowd, do people care about the non-tournament parts of H'Con?

That is, if all of the Warrior events were still taking place but there were no dealers, participation games, flea market, etc. would people care?

[Mark Stone]

[Ewan McNay]

At least two; Alex gets extra votes as a paid-up member of the game's future.

[scott holder]

I care about all of it. Since I don't get out much, it's nice to know what else goes on.

Just so Jon doesn't have to say it, you might ignore any overtly political recounts of the General Membership meeting.

scott

[Bill Chriss]

I take the middle of the road on this question. I would NOT care about the absence of any other games, even other ancient and medieval games. However, like Mark, I WOULD care about the absence of the dealer room and flea market. In other words, all I care about is playing Warrior (TM) and buying (or selling) stuff that has to do with Warrior (TM).

To editorialize a bit, in a hopefully permissable way, I would echo Scott's rosy comments about attendance. I remember the hobby's more populous days (I got into 6th at about the same time as Bill Low). Warrior (TM) has not only saved the hobby, but it looks to be the vehicle by which we can actually enter mainstream culture. Did only my John (little Greek) and I notice? After twenty years, I'm not quite sure how to put this delicately, but I now see a group of more normal, well-adjusted, polite, well-educated, well-groomed, mature historical gamers. They play Warrior. Perhaps other rules systems have this kind of support or fan base, I don't now. The point is that our guys know their history, they have lives outside of gaming, and they are out to learn a bit about military history, compete as gentlemen, and have a little innocent fun. Many of us do this as a father-son adventure, like others fish or hunt or backpack. I no longer feel like one of the few "normal" guys pushing figures around.

One really good thing about Warrior (TM) is that the complexity and historicity of the system demand a level of serious study from anyone who wants to enjoy the game. This is a tremendous advantage in terms of recruiting the type of people who act as good ambassadors for the game, and with whom it is fun to compete. My brother the sociologist would agree that culturally Warrior folks are a slightly different breed from what most folks associate with wargaming or (gasp) fantasy/goth stuff. I don't mean this (I hope) in any elitist way. It's a marketing fact. If you have a remarkably pale complection, wear black lipstick, think you're a vampire, and sport a mohawk, well, my apologies in advance. Nothing personal.

The point is that there is no reason why poker, or billiards, or bridge, or backgammon should be more popular or more mainstream than historical miniature gaming (in whatever time period or scale). However, I see in the Warrior crew a company philosophy, marketing effort, and group of aficionados that frankly I believe to be the class of the hobby, a group that has a real chance to remove any negative connotations or stigma formerly associated with "gamers" by popular culture.

Like dodgeball, perhaps someday the NICT will air on ESPN 8, "the ocho." Personally, in a small way, I've been working towards, and hoping for, this for many years. I now have renewed optimism based on my experience at H'con with FHE this year. Let's shoot for 100 players in 2007. God willing, the Greeks will be there to hold up their end and provide the cannon fodder.

[chrisbump]

I walked around looking at the various games in the Ancients hall. None of us in DFW play tournaments any longer so I just come to Lancaster for the once a year shopping spree and to look at what else is going on in gaming. Since we don't do tournaments I won't chime in about Scott's question but what I did notice was that the Warrior figures were the prettiest in the hall- that normally goes to WAB. I was suprised that the WAB terrain was not all that impressive this year. It looked pretty much like what I saw on the Warrior and DBM tables.

Just out of logistical curiosity, for Scott or Jon, is there a number of attendees where by the current venue could not sustain Warrior and in essence another location would have to be found? 54 is quite impressive. I know that it is a bridge you won't need to cross until then, and a problem most game designers would like to have, but.....

Chris

[joncleaves]

Chris

*I* am ready to move the Warrior events at the drop of a hat. The Host has long since been surpassed as the venue of choice for me and HMGS East - as long as it stays run the way it is - is a darned suboptimal group to work with.

But if we moved the Warrior events, we'd lose the NASAMW synergy we have with fellow ancients players and take our players away from the concentration of dealers everyone loves. If I had a solution to that, I'd be raising the cry to move already.

Jon

[Bill Chriss]

From my perspective as a professor of political science (and history), it is great to see people at least talking about this, and I concur with Jon. (BTW, I'm happy to forego any further discussion of this here if it is judged somehow "over the line"). This is clearly a NASAMW issue, at least as long as the hobby of AMW is fractured among different rules systems that use the same figures and essentialy the same terrain and basing systems. However, once Warrior becomes the clear majority system (if it hasn't already), or once NASAMW ceases to represent the desires and interests of Warrior players (not likely I would think), then it might become a Warrior issue.

Hypothetically, an obvious choice for a different venue would be Missouri, or elsewhere that is centrally located. Then some of you East Coast guys can see what it is like to drive or fly 1800 miles to play your important Warrior games for the year!! If it is felt that too many players are in the East to support that, then at least it could alternate back and forth. Many conferences in the academic world do just that. Geographic market concentration is a two-edged sword. You must concentrate your efforts at servicing your base, but if you do so too much, you guarantee that you'll always be geographically limited in appeal. The additional problem, of course, is that H'con (and Cold Wars, etc.) is "ready-made," that is, neither NASAMW, nor Warrior, has to do all the logistics associated with setting up the overall Con, replete with dealers, etc. (although merely setting up the tournament events within the CON is very difficult in itself, and we are indebted to Scott, Jeff, and the others who do this work). Doing a "Con" or tournament for even 6 to 10 players can be a daunting task. Obviously, those far more involved and connected than I have long considered these things (and more). This is just my $.02 and I do hope for the day that Warrior (TM) is so big that we are the 3000 pound gorilla in every miniatures room!

[joncleaves]

It is ok to talk about where the Warrior national championship is or could be located.

One of the issues is that where the big Warrior events are now is *easy*. Shifting to a new con would be a lot of work for someone and I know that cannot currently be me.

Now, if someone volunteered ot take charge of moving it and the balance of players would still come (or we'd get more because we moved somewhere more central), I know for sure I would listen.

J

[Mark Stone]

[scott holder]

In year's past when TOG had a larger market share as it were and we bounced the NICT from Hcon one year to somewhere else another year, the "somewhere else" years took big hits in attendance, usually at least 25% less. We are just now creeping back to where we were, I'd hate to shoot ourselves in the foot by moving prematurely.

As Jon put it, moving the NICT means losing a lot (synergy, other games, dealer concentration) and for better or for worse, at least for now, Hcon offers the most stuff for the most people. Moreover, particularly this year, it's the best place for us to "show off" not only our figs but our playing style, our game, etc. If we were someplace less visible, that means less "selling" albeit even in our currently passive kind of way. Okay, that could be interpreted as "Scott wants to sell more copies of Warrior" and that's true. But it's also true that the only way this system will effectively survive is if we keep it vibrant and one of the best ways to do that is to get some fresh blood in the mix occasionally. And even if these people don't play in tourneys, they add to the mix in terms of the rules and their continuing development.

Don't get me wrong, given the *painful* process tournaments in general just went thru over the last 11 months regarding Hcon, I'm much more inclined to look around if we're backed into a corner. I just don't think we're in that corner...yet.

scott

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Gents,

To be honest, dealers are not the issue. Most of my figures are purchased online anyway. When I go to Historicon, it's to play Warrior first and foremost, period. Shopping is the sideline. Certainly, I'm part of the feeding frenzy that results between rounds, but that is not why I come to Historicon. The truth is that I would likely not attend if there were no Warrior offered. I would certainly go wherever Warrior was offered even if that meant Alaska. Dealers are not an issue with me and I would offer anyone who owns a computer or access to one would tend to agree considering that most manufacturers have pictures from which one may choose and have delivered to one's home. As for my vote, I will go wherever Warrior is offered. . .

Kelly Wilkinson