Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Mark Stone]

Frank Gilson and I have been having some debate over email about the merits of plastic figures. While there's an obvious reluctance to use plastic figures, the price is very tempting, and there's a variety of figures available that's tempting as well. See, for example, http://www.michtoy.com.

One problem is that plastics are done in 1/72 scale, and my question to the group here is what does that correspond to? I think it works out to something like 22mm, which is passable for 25mm provided you don't mix them with other 25/28mm figures.

What do other people think?


-Mark Stone

[cloppdave]

Hi Mark
As a person who started his 1st real army (after micro tanks) with plastics I used the Arfix Ancient Britians for the army about 30 boxs if I remember and they scaled out to around 21mm so I used the 20/25 mm baseing. Painting was very hard as they have to be washed several times in warm soapy water and then you have to use alot of fixative to try and keep the paint on. I had to repaint after every battle. The paint I used was Humbrol as there was not even Poly-S at that time.
After trying for a year I ordered 20mm Greeks from Garrison as being yound and dumb I said heck with the cost ease of use was worth it.
Being and old lazy guy I will stay with metal.
Yes guys I am that old and no I did not come with Lief the lost to America.
Dave

[Ambrose Coddington]

I'm sure that you and Frank have hashed out many of the pros and cons of plastic minies. Having built armies with plastics and lead I think the only real merit in plastics the ability to modify them easily. If you intend to do something that includes a whole bunch of conversions then I would say go with it. (25mm is 1/70th scale I think...) The difference in scale will not be really noticeable if your entire army is composed of figures of the same scale.
Plastic figs don't feel the same when you game with them. There is something really inherently nice when moving lead figures. The extra weight makes them feel like they are worth more. (Shadows of 40K and having plastic and lead figs mixed together)
Plastics and lead figs actually paint much the same if you prime properly. Also if you use Testor's Model Master paints the plastics actually paint easier.
Lead figs are also much more durable. (Tim and I don't even seal our figures. And they hold up to my clumsiness quite well!) My 40K army has been repaired several times from drops and crushes.

So cost aside I really feel the lead figs are the better choice.

[scott holder]

I *think* there are several companies out there that make 25mm+ plastic figs. I know Darrell Smith in St Louis has some medieval longbowmen that he picked up in the flea market a couple of years back. They're very nice figures and fit in perfectly with all his other lead-based medievals. What I don't know is who made em. Perhaps somebody on TMP would know.

I just couldn't see going with 1/72 scale figs and I say that as somebody who prefers true 25mm figs. They're just too small to look decent in today's [nominally] 25mm world, particularly since so many people are in effect playing with 28mm armies.

Unlike Ambrose, I don't mind moving around lightweight stands but yeah, that substantive feel of lead is a big attraction to most folks. But if you don't care *and* can find figs in the right scale that also paint up well, yeah, plastic is a viable alternative.

scott

[Frank Gilson]

Plastic figures are enormously cheaper than metal...of course I'm talking about the prices I've seen for older smaller (22mm or 1/72 scale) figures, and not more modern, larger plastics (which I don't even know where to look for.) I've seen useable packs of 30 foot figures for $10 in plastic.

The light weight issue is a plus for those of us who have to carry things on a plane and through an airport.

Does anybody have links for good information about plastic figures? Recent ranges? etc.?

[chrisbump]

I also started with plastic Napoleonics and airfix Britons, Romans and their mile fort. I probably still have them all in a box in the barn somewhere.

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/

is a reasonable site. They have links and if you select manufacturers it allows you to see all that each of literally dozens of manufacturers of 1/72 make. You should know that some of the Eastern European manufacturers just make knock offs of the Western European and Far Eastern lines.

The biggest aesthetic value of plastic is detail. It is far easier to reproduce detail spinning plastic into moulds than molten metal. Although with some of the plastics knock offs there is a considerable denegration in the detail.

Price is a consideration, but I do not think that travel is. Too many of the appendages, esspecially weapons bend with the slightest jolt of your transportaion method and once the plastic bends the primer chips and takes with it your time consuming paint work. The bigger the figures, the thicker the appendages, the less that they bend and alas the less that they chip.

I believe that most 1/72nds are made as toys and not the models that we push around the table. Otherwise the figures would be less "wide open" and thus more likely to flex and chip.

Written by one who spent too many years painting Airfix, ESCI and other plastic Napoleonics only to have them chip and display that sickly yellow moulded color with each battle.

I recall some years back Scott making the comment that he was going to have to police some of what was being put on the table and called painted armies. I wonder if after an arduous journey and multiple battles if the chipped plastics would fall into that same category.

Chris

Chris

[chrisbump]

I also started with plastic Napoleonics and airfix Britons, Romans and their mile fort. I probably still have them all in a box in the barn somewhere.

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/

is a reasonable site. They have links and if you select manufacturers it allows you to see all that each of literally dozens of manufacturers of 1/72 make. You should know that some of the Eastern European manufacturers just make knock offs of the Western European and Far Eastern lines.

The biggest aesthetic value of plastic is detail. It is far easier to reproduce detail spinning plastic into moulds than molten metal. Although with some of the plastics knock offs there is a considerable denegration in the detail.

Price is a consideration, but I do not think that travel is. Too many of the appendages, esspecially weapons bend with the slightest jolt of your transportaion method and once the plastic bends the primer chips and takes with it your time consuming paint work. The bigger the figures, the thicker the appendages, the less that they bend and alas the less that they chip.

I believe that most 1/72nds are made as toys and not the models that we push around the table. Otherwise the figures would be less "wide open" and thus more likely to flex and chip.

Written by one who spent too many years painting Airfix, ESCI and other plastic Napoleonics only to have them chip and display that sickly yellow moulded color with each battle.

I recall some years back Scott making the comment that he was going to have to police some of what was being put on the table and called painted armies. I wonder if after an arduous journey and multiple battles if the chipped plastics would fall into that same category.

Chris

[chrisbump]

I also started with plastic Napoleonics and airfix Britons, Romans and their mile fort. I probably still have them all in a box in the barn somewhere.

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/

is a reasonable site. They have links and if you select manufacturers it allows you to see all that each of literally dozens of manufacturers of 1/72 make. You should know that some of the Eastern European manufacturers just make knock offs of the Western European and Far Eastern lines.

The biggest aesthetic value of plastic is detail. It is far easier to reproduce detail spinning plastic into moulds than molten metal. Although with some of the plastics knock offs there is a considerable denegration in the detail.

Price is a consideration, but I do not think that travel is. Too many of the appendages, esspecially weapons bend with the slightest jolt of your transportaion method and once the plastic bends the primer chips and takes with it your time consuming paint work. The bigger the figures, the thicker the appendages, the less that they bend and alas the less that they chip.

I believe that most 1/72nds are made as toys and not the models that we push around the table. Otherwise the figures would be less "wide open" and thus more likely to flex and chip.

Written by one who spent too many years painting Airfix, ESCI and other plastic Napoleonics only to have them chip and display that sickly yellow moulded color with each battle.

I recall some years back Scott making the comment that he was going to have to police some of what was being put on the table and called painted armies. I wonder if after an arduous journey and multiple battles if the chipped plastics would fall into that same category.

Chris

[Frank Gilson]

There's got to be a primer/painting method for the various plastics (I know different types of plastic are used) that even with flexing/bending of plastic parts prevents flaking and chipping...anybody?

[vdal1812]

Take it from someone who has a RAFM true 25mm Indian Army. Plastics are not compatible with lead. I also have a lot of WWII 20mm figures and it's easy to spot the plastic figures among the lead without having to pick them up.
The only advantage I see is cost.

Vidal

[Mike Turner]

Frank,
There are some newer spray paints that literally bond to plastics, these were designed for lawn chairs, etc. , which I have used the paint for, and I think this would work on plastic figures as it doesn't crack when bent.

Mike

[Noel White]

I might be tempted to use plastic figures if I supplied both opposing armies.
Not a bad idea if you are playing with yourself (snicker), or your aunty.
Looks kinda funny at a tournament/club though when you show up with an army of Greek hobbits...

No seriously, all the plastic sets seem to me to have less paintable detail, since the surfaces tend to be less sharp. They also bend, break and melt easier than white-metal miniatures. Maybe ther have been some changes, but the plastics I remember were quite "bendy" and the paint tended to flake-off when the figures flexed.
After all, we are mostly in this hobby for the little figures (a proper computer game could simulate all this rulebook nonsense with half the brain-pain) so I say go for the best ones you can afford and take the time to paint them well!

Noel.

[Mark Stone]

[Ewan McNay]

Mark ranted:

[Mark Stone]

[quote="Ewan McNay"]Mark ranted: