Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Ian Poade]

We were looking at the use of incendiary Ox carts and were uncertain about a few things (and by extension also relate to camel carts and pigs).

As we read them, the rules state that:
They count as impetuous mounted bodies with an 80 pace move.
They can be released as a “counter charge”.
They appear not to actually fight against foot units but interpenetrate them causing disorder.
They are removed at the end of the bound they are “launched”?

If this last point is incorrect, can they be launched at any time, or only when a target is within 80 paces?

As they are a mounted body, do they cancel charges by none impetuous foot?
Do loose and open formation foot test for being charged in the open (even though no actual combat is going to take place)?
If the foot charge is not cancelled (or they are impetuous) does the whole of the charging unit contact the original target (the expenable’s parent unit) now disordered, or does the element contacted by the expendable halt at that point, and other elements step forward to contact the parent unit, and if so does the disorder for the interpenetration take effect before or after combat is adjudicated?

If the charging enemy (foot) unit is moving over 80 paces, and if halted by the expendable’s counter charge (i.e. charge cancelled) do they halt where they started the charge (in which case the expendable wont reach them) or at the 80 paces?

If none impetuous LI and there charge is cancelled, and they elect to evade, will the expendable roll for a variable length move?

If the charger is now a mounted unit, many of these issues do not arise. Presumably if the chargers are more than one element wide they will still attempt to “step” charge into the original target if possible.

However a few other points arise. Is the combat against the mounted unit treated as support shooting or hand to hand combat? If (as I assume is the case) it is hand to hand combat, do tactical factors apply (+2 impetuous, +1 charging, +1 down hill etc). Can they count as disordered, say if the parent unit was disordered prior to release, or they are attacking elephants, though logic says pulling a burning wagon would make them as “disordered” as they were likely to get in any case!
Does any resultant disorder on the mounted target take effect at the end of combat, or if the body is fighting the expendable and other enemy in the same combat phase, does the disorder affect the other combat resolution? Presumable the mounted enemy fights the expendable as normal to determine casualties inflicted, as they would a scythed chariot?

If the “parent” unit already has part of its frontage engaged in melee, can it release the expendable as a counter charge at a new enemy charger?

If more than one possible target, can the player select the target, or should it be towards the nearest?

Finally, I presume the direction of the expendable charge must be within 45 degrees of the units facing, but could the parent unit release the expendable body in any direction?


Hope we haven’t misread the rules and all this is set out somewhere.

Thanks, Ian Poade.

[Adrian Williams]

You are not using explosives this weekend are you Ian?

Such a stratagem is surely beneath you!

Adrian

[joncleaves]

Adrian, look this over and if there is still a question, please ask.

Official Clarification on Incendiary Expendables

Add to end of 16.27:

Army lists will identify which unit types may accompany an incendiary expendable. The owning player must clearly state which element of the accompanying unit contains the expendable. The expendable’s charge reach and any disorder from camels or other effects will always be measured from the front face of this element. The accompanying unit moves at the rate of and suffers all the movement-related terrain effects of both its foot type and the expendable type while the expendable is being accompanied.
A mounted element ceases movement at the point it contacts an incendiary expendable. Other elements of the body may legally echelon forward to make contact if possible. Foot bodies do not cease movement unless their charge is canceled.
Incendiary expendables do not have a morale grade, do not ever become broken or shaken and do not take waver tests. They can become disordered. They never suffer hand to hand casualties, but may suffer support shooting casualties.
Igniting incendiary expendables as a countercharge *is* a charge response by the accompanying unit and may be made against impetuous and/or mounted bodies.
The naptha-factor damage done to a mounted body is performed and factored as shooting, but counts as hand to hand casualties. The only tactical factors that apply to this damage are disorder and support shooting CPF.
The disorder caused to a foot body by an incendiary expendable does not by itself create a must rally situation and is cessation-cured.
Incendiary expendables are not subject to 16.22 and 16.24 as they are off table until ignited.
An accompanying body that is in contact with an enemy body cannot ignite expendables.

[Mark Stone]

Jon, some follow up questions on this topic:

1. If the target of an incendiary expendable charge evades, does the incendiary roll a variable move for pursuit, and can it go long (it's considered impetuous mounted)?

2. Does a loose or open order unit containing an incendiary expendable element have to move through very rough areas in column?

3. Is a loose or open order foot unit containing an incendiary expendable element disordered by moving through a rough area?

4. A mounted unit and an incendiary expendable simultaneously make a frontal charge against an enemy foot unit standing to receive. At what point does the foot unit become disordered? Specifically, is it before or after calculating hth combat factors for the mounted unit against the foot unit?


-Mark Stone

[Frank Gilson]

Just checking...but an incendiary camel cart would seem to have wheels, and as such prevent the unit accompanying it from entering any terrain.

Is that true?

[Adrian Williams]

Ian's questions not mine, but I may be facing him this weekend!

I am curious how they work though.

I gather that they count as 5 figures for support shooting cpf purposes?

Adrian

[Frank Gilson]

Jon, you mention that the disorder from incendiary expendables is cessation cured. That seems to conflict with 5.222 and the interaction of the Inc. Exp. and a foot target.

Inc. Exp. interpenetrate any foot body encountered, disordering them, which would appear to be a disordering interpenetration , which is Rally Cured disorder (5.222) not cessation cured.

However, (5.221), the incendiary damage that disorders a MOUNTED target of an Inc. Exp. IS cessation cured.

Right?

[joncleaves]

Boy do I hate these things.

<<1. If the target of an incendiary expendable charge evades, does the incendiary roll a variable move for pursuit, and can it go long (it's considered impetuous mounted)? >>

Yes.

<<2. Does a loose or open order unit containing an incendiary expendable element have to move through very rough areas in column?>>

Yes.

<<3. Is a loose or open order foot unit containing an incendiary expendable element disordered by moving through a rough area? >>

Yes. And if wheeled, this isn't even possible...

<<4. A mounted unit and an incendiary expendable simultaneously make a frontal charge against an enemy foot unit standing to receive. At what point does the foot unit become disordered? Specifically, is it before or after calculating hth combat factors for the mounted unit against the foot unit? >>

Before.

They are 5 figs for CPF.

It is cessation cured. Yes that is an exception to the normal rules.

Remember to send Scott a Christmas card thanking him!

Jon