Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Bill Chriss]

FWIW it helps me and easier to wrap my old grey head around!

[Mark Stone]

Well Jon, I'm still not clear on all of this, but I'm getting closer. We have two separate discussion threads on related issues, and we have several different situations in each thread.

Let me try and summarize:

General situation (synthesized somewhat):

* Unit A is a cavalry unit declaring a charge, and is at least two elements wide;
* Unit 1 is a Roman legion (one element wide) within 160p of Unit A;
* Unit 2 is a Roman auxilia (one element wide) within 160p of Unit A, but farther from Unit A than Unit 1;
* If Unit 1 counter-charges, then Unit A can only reach Unit 2 with an echelon that would disorder Unit A; otherwise if I does not counter-charge, A could echelon forward without disorder to reach 2.

Unit A could declare a charge on Unit 1, or on both Unit 1 and Unit 2. It could declare the charge to be impetuous or not. As far as I can tell none of those choices matter, since a charge counts as declared on all enemy bodies in the path, and charge path extends out to the charger's tactical move once any wheels have been declared.

So it appears to me that the charge by A is against both 1 and 2, even if it is written down as just against 1.

Jon confirms all this by the way, when he states (in another forum thread on this overall topic):

[joncleaves]

Body's not in charge reach do not respond or take wavers.

This from 6.162 on charge reach:

"Charge reach is measured to the
point of first contact with the target body. If the body cannot
legally declare a charge against a target or is prevented from
doing so by some obstacle such as terrain or an intervening
body, that target is not in the body’s charge reach.
For charge declarations, a player can make NO assumptions
about what happens once the charge actually occurs."

This means that unit 2 isn't in charge reach until A echelons and can reach it with that echelon.

[Mark Stone]

[joncleaves]

Does an LMI body respond to a charge (not against evaders or routers) by a Knight body 161p away? No. Why? Its out of charge reach. If i went with your rules change, I could charge someone across the table and make him take a waver 3 feet away.

Charge path is not infinite.

In any case, I think you might have missed 6.162H:

"H. Charge Path. The charge path of a charge is a zone as
wide as the charging body extending out its tactical move."

This can change if the move becomes variable, but if it does not, that's it - you can't be in a charge path if you are beyond the tactical move of the charger.

[Mark Stone]

[Terry Dix]

[joncleaves]

@ Mark - I am not giving up on you. I just don't see the issue. Path is what matters in a response and the outer limit of path is reach. I am willing to keep working through this with you if you show me the issue.

@ Terry - when a charge becomes a variable move, the extent of charge reach (and therefore the out limit of the charge path) changes. That may change who has to respond and/or take a waver.

[John Murphy]

I think I can cut to the chase here...

Repeat of example...
* Unit A is a cavalry unit declaring a charge, and is at least two elements wide;
* Unit 1 is a Roman legion (one element wide) within 160p of Unit A;
* Unit 2 is a Roman auxilia (one element wide) within 160p of Unit A, but farther from Unit A than Unit 1;
* If Unit 1 counter-charges, then Unit A can only reach Unit 2 with an echelon that would disorder Unit A; otherwise if I does not counter-charge, A could echelon forward without disorder to reach 2.

6.162:
"Charge reach is measured to the point of first contact with the target body.

6.162H:
"H. Charge Path. The charge path of a charge is a zone as wide as the charging body extending out its tactical move."

* once declarations are announced, charge targets are determined not by "charge reach", but by "charge path" (6.162G, 6.162H).
* the player receiving charges makes charge responses based on who is a charge target, which is determined by who is in the "charge path".

So the rules seem to indicate as written that even though the Aux are not in "charge reach" they are in "charge path", which does not mean that charge path extends three feet away it just means that it extends to the tactical move distance until a variable move extends it further.
But being in charge path, regardless of charge reach, would seem with the way the rules are written to mean the Aux would waver and make responses.

It sounds (?) to me like the "intent" is not what is written but rather that charge path extends to tactical move distance ***with an additional limitation to charge reach***.

[joncleaves]

As I believe both what you have written to be correct and the rules and intent to match in this case, I do not see whatever disconnect between intent and rule that you are seeing.

Please feel free to ask a question and use a diagram to do so.

Jon

[Mark Stone]

[joncleaves]

I am just about done with the latest errata update and I will add a sentence stating it is explicitly so.

[joncleaves]

The following is new errata we have just approved. Sometime in the next few days a document consolidating this with previous errata and superceding all previous errata documents will be posted on this forum and on our website.
I am placing this here because some of it clarifies the discussion in this particular thread. The portion applying to this thread is highlighted in bold.

New Errata, 1 May 2007

6.163H (pg 43). Change “extending out its tactical move.” at the end of the first sentence to “extending out to its charge reach.”

6.7 (pg 65-66). Add: “A body that includes animals voluntarily moving (including maneuvering) in or into a very rough area must be and remain in column."

6.711 (pg 65). In the second paragraph, delete “until next bound. “

9.3 (pg 83). (Supersedes old errata). Add fifth bullet under JLS:

• "A foot figure armed with JLS and with no other close combat weapon but inherent SA always receives the JLS +.”

12.322B (pg 9. Add: “A body that includes animals voluntarily moving (including maneuvering) in or into a very rough area must be and remain in column."

12.323 (pg 98-100). Gully sides, Hedges, Portable Obstacles and Temporary Fortifications (12.324) have a “line of effect” (LOE). This LOE is the actual line that, when crossed, produces the effects of the obstacle for 12.323 (and therefore also 6.7) and 9.5.
Warrior cannot hope to describe all the various ways these features may be modeled and does not want to restrict player creativity. The player placing the terrain feature, portable obstacle (PO) or temporary fortification (TF) must designate which linear part of the representation is the LOE. For example, a physical model of a gully will have gully sides that have varying degrees of depth to them, but the placing player will designate exactly where the LOE exists in the modeling of the gully side.
For PO’s the LOE will be the edge of the PO in contact with the deploying body at the time of deployment.

The on-table representations of these items may have the depths specified in their various rules, but it is only when the LOE is contacted that the feature produces its game effect(s).

For all rules the words “crosses an/the obstacle” will mean “crosses an/the obstacle’s LOE”. “Across an/the obstacle” will mean “across a/the LOE.”

For the purposes of 9.5, “defending the obstacle” is the same as “the (first) body in contact with the LOE.” “Entering combat” is the same as “contacting the LOE as part of a charge.”

12.323E (pg 99). Tethered animals may be destroyed in the same way as TFs. This is done in the same manner as in 12.324E with the following exceptions:
1. The PO must be shot at as a whole.
2. Each element counts as 3 figures for CPF calculations.