Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Todd Schneider]

The annual Winter Warrior tournament is kicking off here in Kansas City pretty soon. I thought I would do an AAR after each battle I fight, but I also thought I'd post the list I am using here as well.

After two plus years of playing Araucanians, I am making a change. I like Araucanians, and will continue to play them from time to time just to keep myself current on them, but this time around I am playing Berbers. I know they aren't regarded as an "Upper Tier" list, but I like them, they have a few options, and frankly, the Artizan 28mm figs are just to good to pass by IMO. SInce I am doing them in 28's, it made sense to do them in 15's as well.

So, with that in mind, and after pushing some figs around, this is the list I decided to run this year.

CinC 1E Irr B LC L, Sh @ 122
Ally Gen 1E Irr B EHK, L, SH @ 85

Berber Cavalry 4E Irr C LC L, Sh @ 73
Berber Cavalry 4E Irr C LC L, Sh @ 73
Ghuzz Cavalry 2E Irr C JLS, B, Sh @ 53
Ghuzz Cavalry 2E Irr C JLS, B, Sh @ 53

Berber Spearmen 6E Reg C LTS, JLS, Sh @ 130
Berber Spearmen 6E Reg C LTS, JLS, Sh @ 130
Berber Spearmen 4E Reg C LTS, JLS, Sh @ 90

Slingers 4E Irr C LI S, Sh @ 49
Slingers 4E Irr C LI S, Sh @ 49
Slingers 4E Irr C LI S, Sh @ 49

Spanish Cavalry 2E 1/2 EHK, 1/2 HK Irr B L, SH @ 103
Spanish Cavalry 2E 1/2 EHK, 1/2 HK Irr B L, SH @ 103
Spanish Cavalry 2E 1/2 EHK, 1/2 HK Irr B L, SH @ 103
Spanish Cavalry 2E 1/2 EHK, 1/2 HK Irr B L, SH @ 103
Moogs 4E LMI Irr B 1/2 HTW, JLS, Sh; 1/2 HTW, JLS @ 79
Moogs 4E LMI Irr B 1/2 HTW, JLS, Sh; 1/2 HTW, JLS @ 79
Moogs 4E LMI Irr B 1/2 HTW, JLS, Sh; 1/2 HTW, JLS @ 79

Total 1605 Points, 45 Scouting Points, 17 Units

It's been awhile since I've run anything with over 10 Scouting points, so I have been reaqauinting myself running Light Cav effectively. The idea, on papaer at least, is to overwhelm what enemy LI there is with my LC, using the Ghuzz and Berber Cav in tandem, and using my own LC to slow down one flank. Since no plan survives contact with the enemy, we'll see what ideas I have about this list go out the door.

My first opponenet is a Sicilian Hohenstaufen list, which I'll be playing sometime this week. I hope to have the AAR up soon after.

Todd

[Todd Schneider]

There’s something amusing in the fact that after not playing with any sort of mounted the past two and a half years, the moment my army is down a good friend comes over and says “Using the Horse Crutch, eh?” What makes that statement funnier, at least to me, is the fact that looking at my friends army, I see nothing but Elephants and foot…

A couple of days I played Dave Huber in my first round of Winter Warrior. Dave is new to the game, but is running a list that I think will help him learn the game quite well, Hohenstaufen Sicilian. So it was to be my fanatical Muslims with their Fanatical Christian Allies against his Fanatical Muslims and his fanatical Christian allies.

His list, IIRC, was 4 units of LMI Bow, 6 Units of EHK/HK including generals, 3 units of Moog’s, a LC unit, and some LI.

Fr this first time in years I actually had more scouting points, but my happiness in this was soon set aside as he deployed his first command, a Sub General. :-\

Anyways, the Map was fairly open. There was a Brush on the left, and a Hill (Gentle) and Brush on the right.

I set my army up as follows:
On the back line were the Spanish, Knights and Moogs interspersed to support the Berber Spear, who were up front. On the center line in the Brush I had a unit of slingers, I also had a unit of slingers on top of the hill, and my third slinger unit was about a foot to the left. Most of Cav was on the left, one unit of Ghuzz was on the right, and I had a 4E unit of LC on a flank march.

Dave set up his LMI on the flanks, with his Knights and Moogs in the center. He had his LC on my right flank, and some LI in the center.

First turn was relatively uneventful, we both marched forward, did some desultory prep shooting, and that was that. Turn 2 My flank march arrived on my left, earliest its arrived in awhile. Dave brought his LI out of ambush in the brush on the left to keep it close. The rest of the movement was us trying to keep everything in line. After some more prep shooting, my other LI L unit charged his LI, which passed their waver. He rolled short, and I rolled long, so I caught them and broke them in the combat.

Bound three and Dave made a mistake many of us have done in the past, he moved one of his moog units ahead of his supporting knight units, and it wasn’t in skirmish. I was able to line up one of my knight units in such a way that I would be able to charge it and his knights wouldn’t be able to respond. I was also able to charge the one knight unit e had that I felt would be able to influence that battle next bound.

My notes are incomplete on the next few bounds. I broke his Moog Unit, and he passed all but one of his wavers, a Sub Gen Knight unit that shook, but I couldn’t take advantage of. My knights rolled up against his, but not enough to do anything other than push him back, for the rest of that game combat was a slap fight, as I couldn’t expand to get the number necessary for a win, at least that’s what I think. I’ll have to look over that again for future reference.

The next few bounds I was able to get a flank charge into a knight unit, which broke and caused a waver, and my Flank LC unit broke the LI it was facing, meanwhile Dave had countered one of his LMI units and used my other LC as targets quite well.

In the last bound of the game there was a flurry of final charges and combats. One of his Moog units hit one of my big spear units, and rolled up breaking it. One of my Moog units was able to charge one of his knights, and even though I rolled up, he rolled up more, and that unit broke. One of my knight units broke one of his Sub Gen knight units, I rolled up, he rolled down three, and he had a couple of units fail wavers. The last round of the game was quite bloody, there were more failed wavers in that last round than any other.

Game ended as a 3-3 tie, I had 525 points to his 414.

Hindsight being 20/20, I should have ignored his LI in the brush, and marched me LC CinC over to prompt him to retire away from the LMI and towards Daves edge of the table. Had I done that, I think I would have been able to get to Daves camp before he could have done anything about it, or it would have been close, and honestly if he had pulled away an LMI B unit to deal with that threat, it would have made my job in the centerline easier. Dave played a good game in the center, he got some matchups he wanted, and knew there were going to be a couple of combats he had to fight even though they were even odds, because simply because not fighting them would have hurt him in the long run. Hanging the Moog’s out is a mistake we have all made with foot at one pointing time or another, but he recovered well from it, and he played a good game overall. The game was a fun, bloody affair, and although I know we both screwed up some rules, I think it’s safe to say we both had a good time and learned a few things.

Final score was 3-3, with failed wavers on both our sides in the final round adding to that.

Thanks for reading,
Todd

[Todd Schneider]

As expected, my game with Will was a bloody affair. He is running Berber's as well, but Our lists aren't similar, he runs fewer LI and MI units, larger LC units, has a couple of Irr A HC units, but we both had the maximum number of knights and Moogs.

I got a Major Water feature on the left, and a Brush on the center line. Will got a Brush on his left, a brush on my back middle, and an open on my right flank.

I am not sure we played the following correct (see the forum), but Will's Spanish SubGen was Unreliable, and did not interpret his orders correctly, in fact he rolled a "1" and went to wait orders. Bounds 1, 2 and 3 IIRC, Will's CinC sent out a new order, each time Will rolled a 1 for interpretation...till he went and got a new die from Phil and fianlly got an order through.

"Que?" seemed to be the Spanish Generals thought of the day until bound 4.

Setup, as I recall, was as Follows.

The brush will placed was in the rear center. I placed all my close order foot, most of my Knights, and Moogs to the left of this brush.
In the brush I had my other Two Moogs. On the right I had a Knight unit, and all my LC. I thought about a flank march, but the last time I played my flank arrived on turn 2, I thought if I tried it this game it would never arrive. On the center line I had my LI.

The Light battle went as I expected except for two things. One was I charged a LC unit of his impetuously and won, but in the following bounds kept rolling down enough to not do enough damage to break or disorder him. The 2nd was Will's own Flank March, a 6E Unit of JLS LC, arrived, and I went chasing after it with a Knight unit instead of my 4E LC L unit, in effect taking out a unit that would have come in handy earlier.

The combats really came down to die rolls, as neither of us really got any favorable matchups until the last turn of the game. We both had two unit of knights beat one each other, but not enough to do anything except to involve into a slap fight in subsequent bounds. His Irr A HC beat my Knight unit the first bound, but failed to roll up again in the following bounds.

We had a mutual Moog charge that ended up blowing up both units on the spot, and I failed more wavers than he did. I was able to get a nice charge against one of his Moog's by canceling its own charge (see the post on the forum about charging), and Will failed a couple of wavers when his unit broke the following turn, I passed my wavers when his Knights beat my Moog's the following bound.

Last turn of the game was bloody. His last Moog unit charged and broke my shaken Spearmen (which had failed a waver when Will broke a Knight unit), and I was able to charge and break one of his knight units with my spearmen on the flank. 16@5 is some Knight killing goodness...he did not however, fail any of the wavers.

At the end of the battle though, I had more Shaken /Broken units than Will, but it could have gone either way.

Final score was 4-3 to Will, he killed 597.5 of my troops, and I killed 419 of his.

Todd

[Adrian Williams]

I would find it difficult to get much out of such small units of irregular light horse

Adrian

[scott holder]

Todd:

I'm with Adrian here. A 2E unit of Irr C LC? What's your rationale for that unit?

Now, if it were Irr A, I could see some reason for it to exist in a 2E unit. And obviously if it were Reg anything.

scott

[Todd Schneider]

I pair them up with one of the 4E LC L units, and they seem to be working well against enemy LI, ecspecially the bow armed LI. I use them to skirmish and split fire there. And against JLS armed LI they seem to do OK as well.

I keep them on the flanks, theres no reason for them to be anywhere near the center of the battle IMO. They can handle most of the smaller LI units out there. The only other heavy Cav army I have played against, Will's Berbers on my last game, they did what I expected them to do, split fire, help shoot some LI, allowed a 4E LC L unit to get some charges of in better shape.

They are small at 2E, but they work for me in the role I am using them in. If I were to run them larger I would definately be using them differently.

Todd

[Todd Kaeser]

[Ewan McNay]

[Ewan McNay]

Warning: I hate this list. Feel free to stop reading now and avoid insult

[Mark Stone]

[Todd Schneider]

Todd,

IIRC thats how we ended up playing it. Will is new to the game, and I am not as well versed on the rules as I would like to be, so in this case we most likely made a mistake.

After playing an army that didn't have any mounted in it for two years, I am getting back into that swing of things where they are concerned. It was the only Light Cav versus Light Cav battle that I recall, so if we got it wrong, we were at least consistent

Will keep the AAR's coming. Waiting to see who I play next.

Thanks,
Todd

[Todd Schneider]

[joncleaves]

Todd S
You're a hero for putting all this out there.

Don't ignore Ewan just because he's the Ralph Peters of Warrior, there's a lot of good advice hidden in his snarkiness.
Most of what I agree with when it comes to his post is how much you are paying for Irr command points. Irr LI S Sh is just as survivable to missiles as the Reg version. But you *are* losing a lot of troop elements you could have to all those command points for not a lot of return on flexibility. The CF rule does exactly what it intends - it makes it difficult to articulate an irregular force. I might actually pay for one 2E Irr LC unit once in a while, but boy I better have some really important specific reason why its 2E, as it is 99.9% of the time better to add those 2E to an existing unit.

Remember that a mounted general element joing a mounted body goes to the front rank.....

J

[Ewan McNay]

Who's Ralph Peters?? The president of the LIRR?! Or the guy suggesting redrawing maplines in the Mid East? Or..???

NICT lists - Oh, OK. Yes, I have a free couple of hours right now, and will make a start. Didn't realise y'all cared (*sniff*)

[joncleaves]

Personally I don't care to hear about how one dimensional the Welsh are...

Ralph's a retired officer/military commentator. Good ideas wrapped in poke-you-in-the-eye. I think he did indeed recommend the redrawing of the map, but of course that's like suggesting breathing to someone low on oxygen and holding their breath...