Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Mark Stone]

There were quite a few armies at Historicon, both in the NICT and in the Theme, that ran incendiary expendables. Out here in Seattle, Frank and I have been looking at them some trying to figure out if they're really worth giving your opponent 40 points for free.

What do people think based on their Historicon experience, either using them or facing them? Are these expendables effective?


-Mark Stone

[Tim Grimmett]

Mark--

Bill Chriss ran them in his Greek army that I faced with Feudal French.

The incendiaries effects on mounted kept my knights at bay and channeled my attack to other units.

Their limited movement (80p) limit their effectiveness in pressing his attack.

Tim

[scott holder]

[Frank Gilson]

My problem with the Camillan list and their use of pigs is that the list has no effective "chargers with"...mounted or impetuous foot to send alongside the pigs into the enemy.

[Bill Chriss]

I think they're worth it. I want my opponent to get at least a "one," or a "two" if possible. Also, I think that in my 6 games, there were 2 I never loosed any pigs in; 2 where I only loosed one (40 pts); and 2 where I loosed both (80 pts). That is about average for me. i don't get the comment about a high number of armies this year using incindiaries, since by my count, it was only Kelly and the Greek (don't you hate it when people speak in the third person?), one in the NICT out of 24 players, and one in each scale of Theme.

I will trade 80 points that don't count for demoralization purposes for the chance to bust a two unit sized hole in the opposing line and to scare off mounted troops until I can do it. Tim is right, he just never could figure what to do with his knights, knowing that if one hit a pig, there would probably be two waver tests to take. Without pigs, my army would be very, very difficult to play against knight-heavy or elephant heavy opponents. And let's face it, against troops like Samurai, Almughavars, or Celtiberians, without them, I might as well hand over my dice. Tim is also right that because of the limited mobility involved, playing pigs is no picnic. It requires a lot of practice and timing/ unit coordination.

BTW, I also mark the element carrying pigs with little pig markers. I made them in 25mm, and at H'Con this year Kelly gave me some to use in 15mm.

Most telling, as I look back on my performance this year, I find that I had the higher point total in, I believe, 4 of 6 games, and only lost one outright, the first Theme game to Bill Low, who ultimately won the tournament with his Carthaginians. ( I always enjoy playing you, Bill). My point here is that in the other five games, including the losing 2-2 draw I fought with John Garlic, my problem is always that i don't rout enough opposing units, not that I lose too many of my own. So again, the problem is not giving away the 40 or 80 points, but not advancing to contact quicker to force more action.

Now let me digress a bit. I've thought long and hard about my army (like for 10 years). Especially after list rules came out (kudos to FHE for making the game more interesting), I had to compare possible armies by capability. Of course, for me, the list of acceptable armies is fairly short . While I hope to have Nestor, Achilles, Oddyseus and the gang painted up in 25mm for next year's Theme, I calculated that Biblical armies would be very difficult to win with in an open format. About all you get is a lot of chariots running around causing unease, but few troops to do the fighting with, and precious little shooting. Byzantines would be the most natural choice for me, being closest to modern Greeks, but they use too much shooting and have too many cav that I have never learned to use effectively. I'd have to go to Warrior school for another 5 years. This limited the choices to Hellenistic Greeks or some form of Macedonian or Successor army. Originally, it was the issue of whether they are Greek enough that caused me to reject the Macedonian lists I used to play in the 80's and early 90's.

But taking a fresh look at the issue recently, I had to note the huge weapon the Alexandrian and Successor lists now get with the Macedonian Companion cavalry rules. I would actually like to try that a couple of times. But even after those changes and the hypaspist no-waiver rules, I still prefer Hellenistics. As I discussed with Bill Low, I would play later hoplites if their peltasts (particularly the Thessalians) were Reg B, but such is life.

Here's why I like my army, in order:

1. As many Reg B LTS, JLS, Sh peltasts as you want, half of which can be upgraded to LHI.
2. 8E Shielded rank and a half Tarantine LC
3. Decent Reg B HC lancers with 3 subgenerals, useful for a coup de grace, but too vulnerable to tempt me to be too aggressive with them
4. 2HCW, JLS armed LMI Thracians (guess what, nobody else gets them except Seleucids and later Thracians, not even Alexander);
5. Pigs which can make the infantry targets of 3 and 4 disordered.
6. 4E of boltshooters that, for 110 points can take up 6E of effective frontage and put out 20 @ 4 on any non-light troops that get within 160 paces.

This is by no means a formula for a killer tournament army, but it suits the way that I know how to play, which is heavy on infantry tactics, essentially no shooting, and relative imperviousness to enemy missile fire.

Basically, I love my army. In an open format, I doubt I'll play another. I want to tell everyone what a great time, as always, John and I had at H'con, and we're already planning for next year's trip.

Xerete' ! (Greetings and good health to you)