Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[scott holder]

Thanks to Ewan for umping the Theme so that I could play. Many many thanks to Mike Lewis and Dean Marquis for offering to float and just as importantly, Eric Turner for offering to play/not play *and* float depending on the situation. And finally thanks to Mike Mallamaci who very gracefully bowed out of the NICT (he played in the Mini) when one qualifier (Dwyght Coats) simply never showed.

Figures for the most part were very nice. Once again, I had people wander by and marvel at the row of 25mm tables (we were on one side, DBM 25mm on the other) and all the amazing looking armies. A special shout out to Rich Kroupa for his homemade terrain. It's good looking and utilitarian.

NICT qualifiers will be posted on the NASAMW site.

Now onto the results!

NICT

1) Derek Downs, Early Burgundian, 49.3
2) Ewan McNay, Sassanid Persian, 42.8
3) Dick Hurchanik, Feudal Japanese, 31.6
4) Tim Brown, Tarascan, 31.3
5) Dave Markowitz, Early Burgundian, 30
6) Todd Kaeser, Knights of St John, 27.2
7) Dan Woyke, Inca, 26.6
8 ) Jamie White, Khmer, 25.8
9) Scott McDonald, Mongol, 24.8
10) Charles Yaw, Spanish (Tartessian), 23.7
11) Dennis Shorthouse, Swiss, 19.1
12) Steve Rawls, Han Dynasty Chinese, 18.5
13) Matt Kollmer, Toltec, 14.3
14) Jon Becker, Nikephorian Byzantine, 13.7
15) Jon Cleaves, Ming Dynasty Chinese, 8.1
16) Kelly Wilkinson, Camillan Roman, 8
17) Tim Grimmett, Ghaznavid, 6
18 ) Jim Bisigani, Late Carthaginian, 5.8
19) Craig Scott, Late Achaemenid Persian, 5.6
20) Mike Lewis, Ten Independent States Chinese, 4.4
21) Mike Kelly, Mongol, 3.2
22) Bill Low, Low Countries, 2.8
23) Rick Parrish, Ten Independent States Chinese, 2
24) Steven Hollowell, Han Dynasty Chinese, 0

MINI OPEN

1) Dave Lauermann, Feudal Japanese, 24.5
2) Marc Cribbs, Early Saxon, 19.5
3) Mike Mallamaci, Gallic, 19.1
4) Rich Kroupa, Mongol, 17
5) Dave Dietrich, Numidian, 14.4
6) Jevon Garrett, Timurid, 14
7) Paul Leuschen, Italian Condotta, 12.9
8 ) Scott McCoppin, Late Hoplite Greek, 11.6
9) Sean Scott, Italian Condotta, 11.2
10) Dean Marquis, Polybian Roman, 8.1
11) Paul Wilson, Ghaznavid, 7.9
12) Dmitri Garlic, Late Carthaginian, 5.4
13) John Garlic, Late Hebrew, 4
14) Jack Young, Late Imperial Roman, 2.6

25MM THEME

1) Derek Downs, Samnite, 39
2) Rick Parrish, Early Hoplite Greek (Bosporan), 34.7
3) Rich Kroupa, Pyrrhic, 23.6
4) Scott Holder, Samnite, 18.7
5) Marc Cribbs, Etruscan, 18.6
6) Tim Brown, Late Carthaginian, 18.3
7) Craig Scott, Early Hoplite Greek (Ionian), 14
8 ) Mike Mallamaci, Late Macedonian, 12.6
9) Fred Stratton, Pyrrhic, 11.1
10) Mike Kelly, Polybian Roman, 11
11) Noel White, Pyrrhic, 9.1
12) Dick Hurchanik, Spanish, 9
13) Jim Bisigani, Late Carthaginian, 8.1
14) Kelly Wilkinson, Camillan Roman, 6.6

15MM THEME

1) Bill Low, Late Carthaginian, 27.5
2) Dave Dietrich, Numidian, 23.8
3) Jon Becker, Late Carthaginian, 17.9
4) Matt McCoppin, Gallic, 16.5
5) John Garlic, Syracusan, 15.5
6) Bill Chriss, Hellenistic Greek, 15.4
7) Dean Marquis, Polybian Roman, 12.6
8 ) Tim Grimmett, Gallic, 12.3
9) Chris Schulitz, Polybian Roman, 9.9
10) Dmitri Garlic, Late Carthaginian, 8.5
11) Scott McCoppin, Late Hoplite Greek, 7.1
12) John Chriss, Gallic, 5.2

25MM OPEN

1) Jake Kovel, Early Polish, 22.7
2) Mike Lewis, Ten Independent States, 18.6
3) Kelly Wilkinson, Camillan Roman, 17.8
4) Rich Kroupa, Medieval German Princes, 17.3
5) Ed Bernhard, Mongol, 16.7
6) Bill Low, Toltec (Tepanec), 16.5
7) Mike Kelly, Mongol, 14.3
8 ) Noel White, Alexandrian Imperial, 11.8
9) Rick Parrish/Fred Stratton, Early Hoplite/Late Carthaginian, 8
10) Jim Bisigani, Camillan Roman, 3.4



15MM OPEN

1) Dave Dietrich, Numidian, 27.5
2) Dave Lauermann, Feudal Japanese, 26
3) Sean Scott, Italian Condotta, 22.9
4) John Garlic, Post Mongol Russian, 17.4
5) Jevon Garrett, Timurid, 16.7
6) Tim Grimmett, Feudal French, 16.6
7) Tom Barkus, Alexandrian Imperial, 14.4
8 ) Bill Chriss, Hellenistic Greek, 11.4
9) Dmitri Garlic, Late Carthaginian, 7.3
10) Jack Young, Late Imperial Roman, 4.5
11) Chris Schulitz, Polybian Roman, 4.1
12) Dean Marquis, Polybian Roman, 3.4

Best Camp: Jon Becker
Other good looking camps: Noel White, Todd Kaeser, Bill Low, Kelly Wilkinson, Matt Kollmer, Dave Markowitz, Charles Yaw, Dick Hurchanik
Sportsman: Jack Young
Sportsman (Theme): Scott McCoppin
Other Sportsman Nominees: Jim Bisigani, Jack Young, Dennis Shorthouse, Steve Rawls, Derek Downs, Jamie White, Matt Kollmer, Dave Markowitz, Charles Yaw

Prizes provided by: Silver Eagle, FHE, Kelly Wilkinson, Wargames, Five Arrows, Age of Glory, 50 Paces, On Military Matters

[lilroblis]

Good afternoon
I was looking with envy at the results and was struck by the fact that untillife and work got in the way I was going to be the only Macedonian army in the NICT.
I am a little surprised, as to me the armies that were used are all somewhat succeptable to a good macedonian list. Just flavour of the day, or were people orried about time to complete a game?
BTW last year I got crunched or crunched my opponents in an average of 3 hours per game. With my drubbing at Dereks hands being the only one that went down to the very end.
Would just like some commentary
All the best
Robert Turnbull

[scott holder]

I have a ton of thoughts from Hcon and should probably start a new thread but since time was mentioned here, lemme ruminate on that.

The majority of people who expressed an opinion, to me, loved the shorter rounds. Dave M very circuotiously talked about it in I *think* a negative manner but I learned a long time ago, 100% agreement on anything is impossible.

As a player, sure, my first two theme games had me going "if I only had another 30 minutes". But, and this is a hugely important "but", in each instance, I can trace that need to major mistakes I made earlier in the game, namely my craptacular deployment. Thus, I needed that time to rectify my earlier boneheadedness. Now one could argue that perhaps this system sets too great a premium on perfect deployments, I dunno. But I do know that in both cases, if my deployment had been just a little bit better, I wouldn't be having this conversation with y'all.

And I was playing in what was essentially a close order foot theme and when you get right down to it, time wasn't a problem. I'll talk more about this in another thread on setup.

Dave M suggested that a 3.5 hour game at 1600 pts would dictate certain armies over others, namely those that can move and hit fast. That's very possible but as I've always said, players can do things early on to ameliorate such percieved disadvantages.

Now, one thing I did learn was that in 15mm, a deeper deployment zone is a requirement. Thus, expect to see 360p deployment zones for 15mm only next year.

And with 2.5 hour rounds, the Mini tables will "return" to their smaller size of yesteryear, 4x4 for 15mm, 6x5 for 25mm. That's what we did at Hcon and it seemed to have worked. Add in the deeper deployment for 15mm and things should be okay.

And for those who felt shorter times would result in lots of "muddled" game scores, the scoring patterns at Hcon indicate you had nothing to worry about. First round NICT of 24 players had 10 of them winning 5-X and that tracks with how the NICT has played since we expanded to 5 games. And the Mini and Open pretty much tracked the same way.

The one thing that made this work was being very agressive and dictatorial about setup and start of play. I'll discuss that in a seperate posting.

Rob, I remain convinced that an Alex Imp army would do just fine in a 3.5 hour format, particularly in 25mm.

scott

[Bill Chriss]

[scott holder]

I should ammend that poorly worded sentence that Bill quoted.

The deeper deployment zone would be for 15mm only, not 25mm. If it works as expected, expect it to become a permament fixture at the big east tourneys.

scott

[Ewan McNay]

To borrow your line... how can I be rude about your list comments if you don't post them?

[I figured we'd come back from H'Con to a masterwork analysing the various lists and detailing the expected course of the tournament... ]

[Frank Gilson]

Mark Stone and I have the collection of list final versions that Scott provided us to assist him with.

We are currently all-consumed by work for this week and next, but hopefully the following week the 'big event' will have passed and we can look at them.

Frank

[Harmon Ward]

It looks like there were more people in this tournament than we see in our miniatures room all convention here in LA. We need to get busy and get to Historicon next year.

[scott holder]

If you're coming to overload on Warrior, you won't be disappointed.

Also, if you are wondering where the NICT list commentary that followed this post has gone to, it's under List Lore.

scott