Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Frank Gilson]

The New World Warrior lists are intriguing. Lots of missile troops, varied weapon selection, high morale is available, and many troops can use the unique version of circulating combatants rules.

Those rules permit such troops to swap elements and then count as in first contact (and thus shielded) and ordered even if they win the initial combat. This is key for a couple of the weapon combinations available.

LTS - note that you'll inflict the -2 on the enemy on the 2nd bound of combat using the circulating combatants rules. That makes such troops very hard to beat as they'll generally repulse an attack on that bound (or, if winning, certainly do twice as many and cause disorder.)

2HCT - these guys get to do their high damage and count shielded on that 2nd bound...and if they also have JLS can use the + again!

I select the Tlaxcallan sublist of the Aztec main list because they also get two units of mounted lancers (Spanish HK) and some unique artillery.

CinC w/PA as 2E Reg A HK L,Sh 200
2E Reg A HK L,Sh 94
2 units of 2E Reg A LHI 1HCW,HG,Sh/1HCW,CB,Sh 164
2 Reg A wheeled Guns w/4 crew 106

Ally w/P in 1E Reg A LMI 2HCT,JLS,Sh
& 1E Reg B LMI 2HCT,JLS,Sh 137
3 units of 4E Reg B LMI LTS,B,Sh 318
4E Reg C LMI LTS,B,Sh 90
6E Reg D LMI LTS,B,Sh 106
2 units of 2E Reg B LMI 2HCT,JLS,Sh 132
2E Reg C LMI 2HCT,JLS,Sh 58
4E Reg D(2 C) LI JLS,Sh 42
3 units of 4E Reg D LI B 78
4 units of 2E Reg D LI B 72 = 1597
24 units, 2 commands, 12 scouting
# of elements = 54
# of figures = 168
Figs per Element = 3.11
frontage cover estimate (subjective) = 34 with 7 unit reserve

Given the rough frontage covered you need one 'impenetrable' terrain feature to cover a flank. I recommend selecting several steep hills to make sure you can get one, and they're the perfect terrain to put the Reg D LMI unit in.

The 2E LI units are your forward pickets, the other LI units are to extend your line mixed in with your Reg LMI and to give your HK, guns, and 2HCT,JLS LMI points to attack through.

Note also that circulating combatant rules permit the 2HCT,JLS LMI to charge through the LMI LTS guys and hit ordered. Unless your enemy can hit the line and rout those units (which you can generally skirmish away from) your counterattack is very powerful.

I buy the wheeled artillery unit in order to add to the bow fire to cause 2 CPF to enemy foot and force a waver test...also, 8 firing at a factor of 4 from a long distance is a very powerful shot. Just keep your units clear of the guns because they 'might' blow up.

FrankG

[Todd Kaeser]

Okay Frank,

Since I love making lists as well and have run a few of the NWW lists I thought I'd take a crack at the list from a slightly different perspective.

I'd keep the same core of Spanish.

CinC w/PA as 2E Reg A HK L,Sh 200
2E Reg A HK L,Sh 94
2 units of 2E Reg A LHI 1HCW,HG,Sh/1HCW,CB,Sh 164
2 Reg A wheeled Guns w/4 crew 106

However, my Tlaxcallan allies are a little different.

Ally 2E Reg A/B LMI 2HCT, Jls,Sh/ 1HCW,Jls,Sh - 133

2x 2E Knights Reg B LMI 2HCT,Jls,Sh - 66 (132)

4E Knights Reg B LMI LTS,B,Sh - 106
2x 6E Warriors Reg C LMI LTS,B,Sh - 130 (260)
6E Novice Reg D LMI LTS,B,Sh - 106

2x 6E Peasants Reg C LMI B 1/2Sh - 70 (140)

2x 2E Subject Warriors Reg C LI 1HCW,D,Sh - 30 (60)

6E Peasants Reg D LI B 1/2Sh - 40
2x 4E Peasants Reg D LI B 1/2 Sh - 30 (60)

1601 - 14 scouting

The bow units provide some real cheap coverage of the table and put out some quality shooting - some of my favorite units.

The LI configuration is slightly different. The peasants are for grabbing space in the center and then falling back through the lines. They are half shielded to hold against cav - it is much tougher to break shielded LI. The LI w/ the 1HCW,D,Sh are to hold the space you need on flanks. Very difficult to shoot up (most shoot at a -1 factor when in skirmish) they can also drive off most other LI.

You have 22 elements of LTS,B,Sh coverage to equal my 22 + I have the 2 units of 6E bowmen. - much more coverage IMO. 22 elements can cover more than 1/2 the board, especially w/ gaps in the line, BUT the concentration of fire suffers.

There are some of the 2E units you have as well - neat find I must say.

This is a very interesting army - one I almost have in 15mm. Need the Spanish to get painted. I just wanted to provide a different look.

One of my favorite parts of conventions is how different ways armies are run. I love the list analysis that has been done in the past.

Respectfully,

Todd K

[Todd Kaeser]

Okay, I just ran my list over the past weekend and I have a few more thoughts.

Even w/ the bowmen units the army has a very difficult time to "cover" the board. What this did was force the small units to be gap fillers and not coming in consecutive rounds of combat using interpenetration.

The Spanish command was not as effective as I had thought. The knights are great to have - they give reach to the army. The LHI 1HCW,HG/CB units are not that great. The guns were slower than I thought (maybe I was playing it wrong, but they only march 2 and move 80p in approaches). I think that I would now run the 2 units of K and one big unit of LHI - forget the guns and go w/ more foot. For the 100 points the guns cost I could get another unit of 6E Reg D LTS,B,Sh and that would give me move table coverage.

It was fun to play and I'll probably break it out again.

Todd K

[Frank Gilson]

Played alongside Dan Woyke in a team game this weekend...used the full Spanish contingent including the guns.

Loved the guns, which did great damage in the middle of the table.

NOTE: you just need a one element wide (or wider) gap for the guns to fire through, and can hit targets that "a line drawn from each front corner of of an element...trying to shoot must reach some point on the target without passing through an obstacle to line of sight" (page 76, 8.52).

So...I typically march the guns up on bound 1, and end with them angled pointing at a gap. On bound 2 they likely have a target (although it may be only LI) given the angle and the fact that they're behind the middle of the battle line.

Even if you're just shooting at skirmishing LI...throw in bow fire and that LI unit is leaving...you then will likely have either a big hole in the middle of the enemy line, or a juicy target for the guns...so keep trying to use them in this manner.

Also, I dropped the CB from the rear of the Spanish LHI and use all HG. The 'only' point to CB is to have a rear rank to support shoot...and only if you are receiving a charge from mounted...which you should never be doing...also, the CB don't help much there. SO...run entirely HG...it makes a big difference, especially shooting at 8-12 figure close or loose order foot units...or against larger units in conjunction with bow fire.

Frank

[Todd Kaeser]

Frank,

Definately takes some practice running artillery. I should finish building it in 15mm and running the lead more often.

I agree w/ the HG only on the spanish foot. The CB fire was negligible for helping. So few figures and the factors are pretty poor vs. most things.

I still prefer the all Meso lists, but this is an interesting twist to a great time period.

I don't know if the Tlaxcallan list would beat an Aztec list in a table matchup. The shielded dart vs. the shildless, but extended range of the bow would be interesting. Would be interesting to play.

Todd

It is nice to talks lists and such.

[Ed Kollmer]

Yo
I know this is abit late, but I was at Bill L this past Sunday and Jevon and Fred S were playing LIR vs Tlaxacallan with Spanish Allies. Jevon basicaaly formed aperimeter on one corner of the board with one flanked on a wood , the other on the board edge. It was a learning game so it was good for me but for the first time I saw the Spanish allies in action.
Good game Jevon and Fred.
Ed the learning

[Ewan McNay]

LIR is a - the - nightmare opponent for many of the MesoAm armies. The foot fights better, shoots well, and they have some cav!

I expect that we will continue to see a bunch of MesoAm armies at H'Con. As for the Spanish, I think that the K are great as an addition, the guns probably ok but marginal, and I would not take more than minimal foot - too expensive in an army that already has great foot.