Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

Raphael · Recruit Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 51

Hello,

This came up in a game over the weekend. I will use Example 6-9 on P40 to illustrate the situation.

In our game unit A was 3Ex2E Reg D CB. Unit X was Irr B SHK L, Sh.
(Unit A had thrown 6 to counter.)

Unit A countered by turning 90 degrees right into column, wheeling 45 degrees left and then expanding 2E to the right, for the unit to end perpendicular to the SHK at 120P (and fire at close range.)

He maintained that the unit didn't end closer to known enemy as they had both started, and ended, the move at 120P.

His opponent then said that this still wasn't legal, as the wheel was not a maneuver and was being used to get closer to the SHK.

So, the question is, was this a legal move?

Thanks, Raphael

(As our games get bigger, we are now beginning to see the subtle differences between counter and retire as player choice).

joncleaves · Moderator Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 16447

Its true that a wheel is not a maneuver for Warrior rules-purposes. So if the wheel portion of the move got closer, it would violate:

"No part of the non-maneuver portion of a counter move may get closer to an enemy body within 240p."

Ewan McNay · Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:55 pm Post subject:

Sorry to jump in. Well, at least a little.

If the countering body started 120p away from the enemy, and did not get closer than 120p at any point, then no problem. Just because part of the movement was not actually away from the enemy, no problem.

(For instance, turning 90 degrees to face enemy also gets no further away).

It frankly sounds as though the counter was both legal and sensible.

Frank Gilson · Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: Ewan's issue

The issue Ewan brings up is that the countering body, even with the wheel, does not ever appear to, as a body (the whole), get closer to the SHK enemy during the counter (using the wheel.)

Parts of the countering body do get closer to the enemy, during that wheel, but not the whole body, and nothing crosses the line/distance defined by the closest point from the countering body to the enemy SHK at any time.

So...is this a legal counter?

Yes, if the rule Jon mentions applies to the body as a whole.
No, if the rule applies to every individual point on the body separately.

Frank

joncleaves · Moderator Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 16447

I guess I made an assumption that the theoretical body's movement would have brought it within 40p. If it didn't, what would the question be about?

Frank Gilson · Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:27 pm Post subject: the question

The theoretical countering body makes a wheel that brings parts of itself closer to an enemy body, but not closer than its closest point is already.

A wheel is a non-maneuver part of a counter.

"No part of of the non-maneuver portion of a counter move may get closer to an enemy body within 240p."

What does 'closer' mean here? You have two choices:
a) A very strict statement that 'closer' means NO SINGLE POINT WHATSOEVER on the countering body can AT ANY TIME during the counter move, with a non-maneuver, get closer.

or

b) A looser statement that 'closer' operates on THE BODY and the starting closest point(s) on it.

a) above would prohibit the move in question, b) would permit it.

This has nothing to do with being closer than 40p.

Frank

joncleaves · Moderator Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 16447

a) is the case. No point can get closer during the non-maneuver portion of the move.

OGS-Vintage · Recruit Joined: 03 Oct 2008 Posts: 34

I have had players in skirmish move away from enemy statiting it is legal in a counter as they are in skirmish - and thus do not have to take a waver test.

I always thought this was a retirement and possibly subject to a waver - can you clarify?

joncleaves · Moderator Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 16447

Making a counter move is not a cause for a waver test.