Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[ted greenspan]

hiya folks,

well, there were only 4 at us for the warrior tourney at bayou wars(new orleans)do you all support these kinds of competitions. sure would like to see the 4 horsemen at some of these outlying events
. john garlic posted it on the boards (this site) but we didnt get alot of interest. we played 2 games each ..new players vrs new players(texas vrs alabama) so we could try other lists and styles. i dont believe that 4 players qualifies for a sanctioned tourney..too bad
1. what is warriors position on tourneys..does 4 horsemen ever attend these events
2. what can we do to build members for warrior here in the south. the only other club besides alabama is dereck downs in fla..i believe, that i kniow about with any kind of membership. we have 4 to 6 here in mobile alabama.
3. at bayou wars FOG had a tourney with 24. the b'ham, baton rouge etc clubs have all elected to join fog instead of warrior when dbmm went down. (b'ham had a tourney with about 30 last month) gesshhh, i hate that as i believe warrior is a superior game.
4. guess my real question is what is the health of WARRIOR. how many gamers are there and where are they located. what efforts is 4 horsemen doing to expand membership.(half price rules to new players) etc.i have played warrior since 7th wrg and strongly support the game, but i am frustrated by what seems to be no marketing of my favorite set of rules to the public or at least little info on what the state of affairs is on our hobby.
5. i do not mean to be overly critical or complain mode...just want info..i dont want to change to FOG(bucket of dice).

ted greenspan

[Adrian Williams]

Most of the Sydney Australia players of Warrior are playing ever increasing amounts of FoG. I am not sure what the future holds here but two tournaments that last year were Warrior are this year going to be FoG.

Adrian

[mrowolf]

I have to agree that its a little frustrating. The 1st Warrior event at Bayou Wars in 2004 (organized by Dave Dietrich) was fun, had 6 players. Dave moved so I gave it a shot in 2005. Still fun, still six players. After a Katrina break in 2006 & 2008, John Garlic tried to put one together this year. Still fun, only 4 players.

We've had fewer numbers over three years than FoG had in their first year event. Add to that that the FoG players were from LA, MS, GA, AL & FL (at least), it feels like Warrior players along the Gulf Coast are on an island.

[Frank Gilson]

When any new rules set comes out quite a few people will 'evaluate it'...which means that instead of playing what they would have played, they play those rules...for a little while.

Then, most of them find that the grass isn't greener and return to what they were doing. Some number become stable players of the new rules set...perhaps in addition to what they also do.

Poor rules sets fall away over time through this process...good ones prosper.

I firmly believe that Warrior is one of the very best.

Frank Gilson

[Bill Chriss]

FWIW, Austin/Central Tex is also now mostly FoG country.

[John Garlic]

Hi All,

While at Bayou Wars, in addition to Warrior, Dmitri and I also got in a couple skirmish games as well as a demo of FoG. After trying FoG, Dmitri (10), still likes Warrior better; and I remain in agreement. We have a friend of Dmitri's coming over to try Fast Warrior today, so we'll see what happens. He's 12, so it may be considered 'contributing to the delinquency of a minor '

On another note, is anyone going to Historicon? I ask this because I notice a dearth of discussion about army lists, formats, painting, and general trash talking which would sem to be in order at this time of year. We are looking forward to it and can't wait to get into the Biblicals tournament (15mm). The revised lists are pretty nice and I like to 'flavor' of some of the lists. That is what I think is missing from FoG; it seems almost generic in a sense as far as the play goes - nice list books though. Anyway, the Egyptians and Hebrews will be there; who else is on deck?

John Garlic

[scott holder]

A very quick reply. If I have time this week, I'll get really meta on y'all.

Ted: The geographic area of which you speak hasn't played Warrior ever. It's been a DBM-centric place pretty much since those rules were released. I'd venture a guess to say that most FoG players are the same names you've seen listed on DBM tourneys from thereabouts over the last 15 years.

So, it's not as if Warrior's "lost" something in terms of current players.

scott

PS: Warrior Battles is still a product that will be developed and one that we feel will be *very* attractive to those playing FoG.

[chrisbump]

To Bill's post, all of Texas has softened on Warrior.
The large group in central Texas has gone FOG and the group in Dallas has also quit playing.
In Southern California, a few stalwarts (2 or 3) continue to play but tournaments are no longer organized and all that I still commo with out there have moved to FOG.
Louisiana has been a light spot for Warrior, but even the John Green's of the world have left the game. To position that the population playing warrior is not shrinking is to put one's head in the sand. I recall in 02-03 posts about how tournaments were popping and more players were coming into the fold. The board was abuz with questions and interest in the game. The annecdotal evidence says the pendulum has swung.
I forecast once before that the complexity and the continual need for clarifications and updates to the rules will put Warrior in the same class of games as Empire and its sequels.
Sad, becasue it is a great game.
Chris

[Bill Chriss]

John,

I'll respond to your post about H'Con by creating a new thread called H'COn 08. Sorry we couldn't make Bayou this year.

[Kelly Wilkinson]

As far as Warrior's health here in Kansas City goes, I would say it's either on life support or it's dead. Since Flames of War is now doing it's Nationals tournament at Historicon all day on Friday and Saturday, No one here will likely be participating in Warrior at least according to the people I game with including myself. I may play in the mini but that's as far as it goes. I noticed that two of our normal Warrior stalwarts from the east coast were planning on attending and these guys usually play in the NICT, when I saw that I was shocked. Warrior seems to be dying which is very sad too me.

Kelly

[Jake Kovel]

I cannot speak for the other Horsemen but I still play a significant number of Warrior games per year. Already this year we have done multiple game days at the Low house in southeastern CT and had a successful tournament at PointCon in New York.

In response to Ted's questions that started this thread, I am willing to travel to events, within reason. In the last couple of years I have been to tournaments in New Jersy, New York, Pennsylvania, Connecticut and Massachusetts. And I have also provided prize support to events in other locations.

We still have a Fifth Horsemen program on the books but I cannot comment on the activities of our outriders, such as they are. If anyone is interested in the program, feel free to let me know.

Here in New England we have also seen a rush to FoG, but we have not lost any of our regular Warrior players. In CT the majority of FoG players are either new to ancients or played DBM. There are a couple of us who are trying to recruit the new players to Warrior, but they need to get into ancients first.
Jacob Kovel

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Jake,

I sure miss having you, Sharri, and the kids around here in the KC area!

Kelly

[Rickster61]

Ted,

I'm sorry that I missed the notice that there was a Warrior tournament at Bayou Wars. I probably could have made it, and perhaps pulled another player or two there to make it an "official" qualifier for the NICT. I will keep it in mind for next year.

As to the health of Warrior, I game up in Jacksonville, FL. with Derek Downs, so there is no shortage of games for me.

Rick Parrish

[chrisbump]

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott wrote:
A very quick reply. If I have time this week, I'll get really meta on y'all.

Ted: The geographic area of which you speak hasn't played Warrior ever. It's been a DBM-centric place pretty much since those rules were released. I'd venture a guess to say that most FoG players are the same names you've seen listed on DBM tourneys from thereabouts over the last 15 years.

So, it's not as if Warrior's "lost" something in terms of current players.

scott

PS: Warrior Battles is still a product that will be developed and one that we feel will be *very* attractive to those playing FoG.

Frank wrote:

When any new rules set comes out quite a few people will 'evaluate it'...which means that instead of playing what they would have played, they play those rules...for a little while.

Then, most of them find that the grass isn't greener and return to what they were doing. Some number become stable players of the new rules set...perhaps in addition to what they also do.

Poor rules sets fall away over time through this process...good ones prosper.

I firmly believe that Warrior is one of the very best.

Frank Gilson

At first glance the two above statemtents do not jive.
What were the DBMers in the deep south playing prior to DBM?
The contingents in the geography that Scott describes have large contingents of ancients players. If what Frank describes is true then some number of them would have come back to 7th and thus into Warrior. Scott declares that part of the world (we'll say) non-viable for Warrior.

I am writing because I saw what struck me as a seminal moment this past weekend. I attended Milleniumcon in Austin this past weekend. There used to be Warrior tournaments there some years ago, but not this year. No real suprise there as has been discussed previously. What struck me was that there was no DBM nor DBA. Just FOG with 16 players or so. This was exacerbated by my discovery at the flea market of entire sets, not set but sets of Warrior army books and rules. I did not see that at Historicon this past summer nor at Cold wars. I did not make Fall in this year, but it struck me. I further wonder about the fact that for the past few years the traffic on this site has continued to decline.

The signs seem to be forboding.
Chris

[Ewan McNay]

I suspect that there's no overall tournament gaming decline; I do agree that something like FoW draws much of the energy away from alternatives such as Warrior.

Honestly, I still miss the old email list, which was far more 'stimulatory' rather than having to have everyone make the effort to remember to come check the forum. An RSS feed would help a lot with that.