Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[lilroblis]

I am starting to get really excited about the theme next year, and have started to review the potential armies:
Firstly I think that the Later Spartan, teh Persians, Syracusan and Early Carthaginian are the strongest - because in theme you can run Persians with 100 scouting points and dominate the game, or the others because spanish absolutely crush Hoplites.
That being sais - I would love to get peoples thoughts on the various Hoplite them armies, and I wil post my evaluations of each one as I go through them.
Also for painting - I am looking at Spartans - when did the Lamda become general use in Spartan armies and did the Healots also use them?
Thoughts?

[Ed Kollmer]

Yo Robert
Later Spartans are one of my armies. But I will not be offended if you disallow how I run the armies. You might do well if you did the opposite of what I do since I really don't do well.
Also I pick armies for which I have a historical affinity.
I have like the story of the 10000 and since the Later Hoplite (spartan) can have 12El of Excyenian (remnants of the 10000).
I also go with Gauls and Spanish. I get all of them. I prefer Irreg C Spanish with HTW and Jls. Matt tends to go with Reg. I also upgrade the Gauls to Irreg A. The Gauls and Spanish are my shock troops. I use the Spartan Hoplites to hold flanks or follow up after the Gauls/Spanish are dead and exhausted. Peltasts are for the rough terrain I also get some LMI Hoplites since they are cavalry-proof LMI. I get a few LC just to keep me in the scouting game. Also I love slingers. I give them shields and somehow they seem to do better than bow.
I could send you my list but would it help you. Do you want to see it.
Ed (Leonidas)Kollmer

[lilroblis]

Ed
I would love to see your list, I too like the image of the Spartans on the battlefield (if not off), and the way you trun the later spartans sounds similar to the way I would run them.
The biggest problem is that you end up with very few hoplites, because they are not your best troops - and I like the idea of a wall of Hoplits.
To me this theme will rely on how you can kill the Spaniards because otherwise they will win the tournament, and that is also why Later Aechemenid will do well - scythed chariots and lots of EHC lance, B kill spanish and gauls, plus you have enough hoplites to be competative in that as well should you so choose
Robert

[Historian]

I’m thinking Syracusian. I already have the artillery painted, and with all those close order foot armies that can’t get out of the way. They should get some shots off before being destroyed. I won’t win, but it will be fun, in a “British vs. Zulu” sort of way.

[Frank Gilson]

Take care until we have the Theme special format/rules specified and released to you before you acquire or paint any figures. The intent is that hoplites be a competitive focus for the event.

Thus various troops may be unavailable or amounts permitted on certain lists lowered or raised.

The function of some troops may be modified.

Hold on to your hats.

[lilroblis]

Frank
Good point - however if I am going to have a theme army by next year I need to start painting now.
That being said I am running a Hoplite list - so my first 150+ figures will be hoplites, Greek HC , LC and LI
I was not planning on running any Spanish

[Frank Gilson]

[Ed Kollmer]

Well here goes again. Sorry I was late, but that is why They are called LATER hoplite Spartans
Kollmer’s Later Hoplite Spartans.
Here goes again. I typed this stuff already and lost it. Hopefully this works.
Feel free to disavow any knowledge of these lists


List one’
1El CNC (Memnon)RB, HC, Jls
8El Hoplites(ExCyreans) RB MI, Lts, sh +Gen(Xenophon)
8El Hoplite (ExCyreans) RB, MI, Lts, sh +Gen(Leonidas)
4El Unarmoured Hoplites RC, LMI, Lts, sh
4El Unarmoured Hoplites RC, LMI, Lts, sh
4El Gauls, IrA, LMI, Jls,sh
4El Gauls, IrA, LMI, Jls,sh
4El Spanish IrC, LMI, HTW,Jls,sh
4El Spanish IrC, LMI, HTW,Jls,sh
6El Peltast, RC LMI, Lts,Jls,sh
4El Peltast, RC LMI, Lts,Jls,sh
4El Peltast, RC LMI, Lts,Jls,sh
6El Archers IrC, LI, B
8El Javelin RC, LI, Jls,sh
3El Greek LC, RC, Jls
3El Greek LC, RC, Jls
2El Greek HC, RC, Jls



Well If you haven’t had enough this will help finish you off.

1El CNC (Memnon) RB HC, Jls
5El Hoplites(Lakedaimon) RB MI, Lts, sh + 1El Spartiates RA
5El Hoplites(Lakedaimon) RB MI, Lts, sh + 1El Spartiates RA
6El Hoplites RC MI, Lts, sh
8El Hoplite (ExCyreans) RB, MI, Lts, sh +Gen(Xenophon)
4El Unarmoured Hoplites RC, LMI, Lts, sh
4El Unarmoured Hoplites RC, LMI, Lts, sh
4El Gauls, IrA, LMI, Jls,sh
4El Gauls, IrA, LMI, Jls,sh
4El Spanish IrC, LMI, HTW,Jls,sh
4El Spanish IrC, LMI, HTW,Jls,sh
4El Peltast, RC LMI, Lts,Jls,sh
4El Peltast, RC LMI, Lts,Jls,sh
4El Javelin RC, LI, Jls,sh
4El Javelin RC, LI, Jls,sh
4El Greek LC, RC, Jls
4El Greek LC, RC, Jls
2El Greek LC, RC, Jls


Now this will really finish you off. Haven’t had enough . WELL Take this BAM, SLUG, POW.



2El CNC (Memnon)RB, HC, Jls+ HC RC, Jls
12El Hoplites(ExCyreans) RB MI, Lts, sh +Gen(Xenophon)
8El Hoplites ½ RB MI, Lts, sh, ½ RC, MI, Lts, sh
8El Hoplites (2El Spartiates)RA, MI, Lts, sh, (6El) RC, MI, Lts, sh+Gen(Leonidas)
6El Unarmoured Hoplites RC, LMI, Lts, sh
8El Gauls, ½ IrA, LMI, Jls,sh, ½ IrC LMI, Jls, sh
8El Spanish IrC, LMI, HTW,Jls,sh
4El Peltast, RC LMI, Lts,Jls,sh
8El Cretan RC, LI, B
6El Javelin RC, LI, Jls,sh
6El Javelin RC, LI, Jls,sh
6El Javelin RC, LI, Jls,sh
2El Greek LC, RC, Jls
2El Greek LC, RC, Jls

[lilroblis]

Ed
In my opinion the way ypu have configured it you lose the power of the troops :
Spartan foot fights 3 ranks deep - so either 4 or 6 in my opinion (the 4 is a great fighting size for everyone not Hoplites and you contract to single file against other hoplites - or 6 three ranks deep.
Then for the spanish - 2 elements - they kill hoplites, but can fit in gaps so are not as threatened by cavalry
Gauls - I am not sure, also you want your front rank to be HI not mediums in my opinion.

[Frank Gilson]

As Rob suggests, Hoplites will have to seriously consider front rank HI. They'll be fighting primarily troops that take a worse combat factor if they're armored...most importantly other Hoplites.

I wouldn't want to be MI hoplites facing HI. Element per element that's a disorder on the MI...and soon a rout.

Spartans will, again as Rob says, want to look at being able to fight 3 ranks deep when appropriate.

Frank

[Ed Kollmer]

WOW Thanks for this It is great.
Just a couple of questions
1) Do you mean I should run the hoplites , 6El units , \2El frontage.?

2) Ok I will reconfigure the Spanish

3) Upgrade the Hoplites to Front rank HI.

4) It says spartans can fight 3 ranks. What are considered spartan ? I thought it was just Spartiates. Am I correct ?

Ed (Leonidas)

[lilroblis]

Ed - Spartans and Laekodeamons - see end of list

[Ed Kollmer]

Ok Robert , you now know I am an idiot . Sorry about that , but I do have a good question.
Do the NEODAMODEIS count as Hoplites.? They fought as such and fought with the Spartans.. Do they get the Hoplite Rules.?/

Ed the Idiot.

[lilroblis]

Ed
I believe so - dont have the lists but believe Healots fight as Hoplites, as do Naedaemons

[Frank Gilson]

Helots and Neodamodeis are NOT hoplites and don't get any of the Hoplite special rules...they're basically "guys waiting to die" as far as I can tell.

Of course, your Spartan hoplites won't care if they rout.

Frank