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MesoAm Theme lists - some thoughts after tourney

 
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Ewan McNay
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: MesoAm Theme lists - some thoughts after tourney

This may be slightly disjointed, but I'll try to post some comments on various armies from this region coming out of the recent Schenectady tournament.

Comment 1: Chinantec
The list that I liked least, probably, was the Chinantec. From my point of view, the 2HCT-only blocks missed out on the key virtue of MesoAm armies, the double-arming; it seemed an odd choice.

Checking the list, I see that there's no option for a missile weapon nor for a JLS double-arming; given that, I don't know why anyone would choose to play this in-theme. Out of theme, taking them as close-order as anti-cav I could see, but the army as a whole feels/felt pretty nonviable to me.
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Ewan McNay
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Comment 2: Conquistadores

On the flip side, the Spanish list is neat: good-to-excellent* native LMI that work VERY well in tandem with the HK and war dogs against opposing LMI. The ability to threaten skirmishing opponents with a mounted charge is huge.

*In-theme. Out of theme, a bit in contrast to the Chinantec, this may not be the best MesoAm list in some cases. Notably, I took the LMI as very intentionally heavily hand-to-hand oriented, with several units of 2HCT, JLS, Sh/1HCW, JLS, Sh. These beat anything I faced in other armies *but* did little or no shooting - just a JLS to allow me to be in skirmish when I wanted to be. Against troops where missile fire is more important - notably, enemy shock mounted who have traditionally needed to worry about slings from MesoAm LMI - they would not work nearly as well as (say) an Aztec LTS, S, Sh unit. I was a bit surprised at how readily my opponents entered h-t-h against these units - certainly even out of theme they are comparable with the very best infantry, especially given their ability to circulate.

Other armies can get similar or identical infantry; the reason to pick *this* list is the small Spanish contingent. 3 2E regular K units is not a massive strike force, but it's exactly what you want to intersperse with LMI in the open. Spanish LHI 1HCW, HG, Sh are OK-to-good (albeit expensive) troops in general, but again in-theme their (rare) armour is a big deal and the HG is especially effective when they can skirmish but opposing troops are LMI forced into block by the threat of HK. This was how I won my first game, against Bill Low's Aztecs: handgun fire from the Spanish in skirmish rolled +1. 12@5 is 48, which disordered the opposing 4E LMI unit and forced it to halt: disordered LMI with LTS are not a good troop type to fight with, and routed on contact when the Spanish charged; that breakthrough was enough to cause a couple of adjacent shaken units: game over. The third 'Spanish' troop type is war dogs. These are interesting: expensive for an expendable and very vulnerable to missile fire (being shieldless LI) but able to go into terrain, more controllable than other expendables after a first charge fails to make contact, and with an armed driver. Because they're not mounted, they don't cause wavers to opposing foot when charging, but they *can* charge with other foot units. Essentially they work well as either a follow-up unit (hence avoiding fire) or as part of a 1-2 to chase an opposing LMI unit and hope it rolls short on an evade some time**. This is a third case where I think the army is less effectve out-of-theme: enemy lights, especially LI, would handle war dogs easily. Only one of my opponents had significant LI, though, in this tournament (Jacob Kovel's Incas, and I kept the dogs away from them). An oddity helps the dogs in-theme: there are a *lot* of 4E units around, and that's just the size that can be routed on contact by an expendable rolling up. I enjoyed the list much more than I expected. It's not a big army - the high-cost Spanish make it cover much less frontage than opposing forces, and there are few lights - so that's yet another potential flaw. In-theme, though, it's a shark.

Oh, right, wheeled guns. These are uber-bombards; I still don't know how to use them effectively. Probably in part because I play aggressively, but in my third game they *did* work well as (eventually, after redeployment) part of a refused flank. I still would not take them again.

** Sad story of the day: Todd Kaeser's Aztecs facing Dave Markowitz's Cimaroons. On I think bound 2, three Cimaroon LMI units charge from 40p against evading Aztec LMI. ALL THREE Aztecs roll short, and all are caught; it was something like a 1-in-600 chance. Oops.
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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject:

I will agree with Ewan that rolling three "1's" in a row (a 2 on a regular die) is not likely being .4% and it cost me the game.

Dave played it right in making me make the evades.

The lists are interesting as it the dart experts are a novelty. Sure they are great that you can charge away lights/opposing skirmishing foot and then blast them at shieldless factors/non-contacting support shooting, BUT the dart makes the troops vunerable to knights (vs. sling).

1HCW is a good combat weapon - except against knights - the LTS is what is needed.

There was a lot more fragile morale (lots of D's and C's on the board) - causing the "whoosh" moments when a broken unit took place.

The Cimaroon list with the EHI pikemen with padded armor were tough to kill.

The Cimaroon Reg A LHI with HG 2HCT, jls, naptha, HTW, 1hcw, & lazers were also a tough troop type to face Rolling Eyes

Todd

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Ewan McNay
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:40 pm    Post subject:

Hey, a math smackdown from Todd Smile. I will note only that I added in the necessary rolling by the Cimaroons to catch the short-rolling evaders.. Smile.
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Ed Kollmer
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:34 am    Post subject:

Actually when I faced Robert with the Cimaroon(sp?).
Todd was right .
I could handle all the weapons but the lazers got me.
I had Robert beat then he pulled out his lazers and that routed my troops. Very Happy
Ed the Jester.
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Frank Gilson
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:32 pm    Post subject: Evading short...

Believe me I understand Todd's pain...in some long ago event I ran some Meso-American list...

And it turns out only one of your reg loose foot units need go short in order to lose three when the pursuing enemy is wide enough to later on convert into the other two after routing the first...
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Ed Kollmer
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:08 am    Post subject:

But don't let that fool you.
THose lasers will get you. Cool
Trust me.
Todd! I will take some of your pain.
ED the RASH
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