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Later Polish "A" list?

 
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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:27 pm    Post subject: Later Polish "A" list?

Ok folks - here is my take on Later Polish - list 19 Feudal. Maybe I'm doing this wrong, but here's my take.

Late version

CinC Reg A SHK L,Sh + PA - 232
Sub - same + P - 162

2x 2E Polish Knights Ir B SHK L,Sh - 133 (266)
2E Polish Retainers Ir C HK L,Sh - 85

3x 6E Polish Foot Ir C 1/2 HI 2HCT,Sh 1/2 MI Jls,Sh - 133 (399)

3x 4E Polish Bowmen Reg C LMI Jls,B,Sh - 90 (270)

6E Mounted CB Ir C LC CB - 73
6E Wallachian Merc Ir C LC Jls,B,Sh - 109

total 1596
scouting 36

you could always split the retainers and a knight unit for 2 mixed units - see below.

The Late period gives you some excellent double armed bowmen with jav for shooting and combat. 5 knight units for quick strikes and some solid foot that is HI fronted and has 2HCT and Jls. 2 units of LC (1 is poor with cb, but still LC) and 1 is 1 1/2 rank fighting to kill enemy lights.

Middle period

CinC 2E Ir B SHK L,Sh + PA - 205
Sub - same + P - 145

4x 2E Knights/Retainers 1/2 Ir B SHK L,Sh 1/2 Ir C HK L,Sh - 109 (436)

3x 6E Polish Foot Ir C 1/2 HI 2HCT,Sh 1/2 MI Jls,Sh - 133 (399)

2x 6E Polish Bowmen Ir C LMI B,Sh 1/2 2HCW 1/2 Jls - 97 (194)

6E Polish Archers Ir C LI B,Sh - 61

6E Mounted CB Ir C LC CB - 73
2x 2E Tartar Cav Reg C LC B 1/2 Jls,Sh - 42 (84)

total 1597
scouting 30

Middle period is much more barbaric in feel with all the foot being irreg C, but hard hitting.

More knight units and all fronted by SHK and can still dismount as all SHI/EHI - but that is the roll of the foot.

The Tartars (don't know if the list rules allow 1 1/2 rank fighting) are there to slow a flank or find one since the army lacks lights.

I like the late period myself as it gives me the regular bowmen who can fight, but only has the 5 units of knights - which I'd probably go SHK/HK with 2 of them personally.

Am I missing how this list should be configured because I don't see the "A" list entirely here. The foot is brittle (albeit hard hitting) but Seleucid/Alex should go through this with pikes & elephants I would assume.

Todd

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:11 pm    Post subject: I don't see it either

I don't see this list as an 'A' List either. And I have been running it for a couple of years. I looks great on the field. But it could be I just don't have the experience running knight armies. My main 25mm army has exactly 2 elements of HK.

I run with the Lithuanians. Lots of LC, albeit expensive LC which can occupy half the board, while the Winged Hussars are else-ware.

I think your list is missing the mandatory Medium Cavalry Crossbow, up to half can be Heavy Cavalry.

I wasn't aware I could have that many Halberdiers, I half to look at that. I am currently running 24 backed by a bombard, but a 72 man line would be wonderful. Just like my Galloglaich...

I can do that.

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Mark Stone
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:44 pm    Post subject:

Here's a sample Later Polish list that Frank Gilson put together that is closer to "A" list status:

CinC Irr B SHK/EHK L,Sh
Sub similar
3x 2E Irr B SHK/EHK L,Sh
2E Irr C HK L,Sh
4E Irr C LC CB
2x 9E Irr C LHI(4)/LMI(5) 2HCW,Sh(2)/JLS,Sh(7)
3x 6E Irr C LI B,Sh/B
6E Irr C LC JLS,B,Sh/JLS,B (fight 1.5 ranks)
3x 2E Reg C LC JLS,B,Sh/B (fight 1.5 ranks)
16 units, 2 cmds, 57 scouting

The light infantry, being shielded with bow, gives you the basis of a solid skirmisher screen, and you have enough light cav to flesh that out. Further, much of the light cav fights rank and a half, and some of it is regular, meaning you can be really aggressive with your light troops.

You have 6 units of knights, mostly front rank SHK, and no wasted points on SHK in the back rank. So very points efficient.

In addition you have two large loose order foot blocks that can certainly hold down any rough terrain if you end up on such a table, and have various threats they pose to troop types that knights struggle with. Note that these guys are big enough to get some benefit from the barbarian foot rules, and thus actually pose a threat to elephants if you can get keep them from being uneasy. They'll also work very nicely against large pike blocks in a combined arms charge together with the knights. Should result in the pikes recoiling disordered.

Finally, because the SHK are in SHK/EHK combos, you can use them dismounted against those annoying single element wide pike units. You are front rank SHI 2HCW, back rank EHI JLS,Sh, and should rout said pikemen in at most 3 bounds.

What this army lacks, in this configuration, is dense shooting as a means of dealing with elephants. Instead you have to rely on the Irr C loose order foot. By contrast, the Wallachians can use dismounted Mongol cav as a very effective, shooting-based anti-elephant troop type. The up side for the Polish is they get more SHK than the Wallachians get. Otherwise the two armies are very similar.
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Frank Gilson
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:28 pm    Post subject: Yup...

The Later Polish list, through the Barbarian foot unit option, gives you terrain capability as well that the Wallachian/Moldavian list lacks.

You can also go to 18 units as follows:
CinC w/PA 2E Irr B SHK/EHK L,Sh 196
Sub similar 136
Sub similar 136
2 units of 2E Irr B SHK/EHK L,Sh 248
2E Irr C HK L,Sh (required) 85
6E Irr C LC CB (required) 73
3 units of 6E Irr C LI B,Sh/B 165
6E Irr C LC JLS,B,Sh/JLS,B (fight 1.5) 97
4 units of 2E Reg C LC B (fight 1.5) 136
2 units of 9E Irr C LHI(2)/LMI(7)
2HCW,Sh(2)/JLS,Sh(7) 236
4E Irr B LC L,JLS,Sh 89
18 units, 3 cmds, 75 scouting

One caveat, the Wallachian LC unit herein does not take shields for its rear rank, as permitted on its home list, but Scott would have to clarify was ok on the Later Polish list.

This 18 unit version makes use of 3 generals and 75 scouting which mesh very well with our updated deployment rules. You'l definitely deploy your third, smallest command after your opponent has deployed their entire army.
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Ed Kollmer
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:12 pm    Post subject:

Very interesting!
I run a Later Polish in 15mm. Based upon Battle of Grunwald.
Might morph some figs to get these lists
Ed the Interested
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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:39 pm    Post subject:

Phil,

The list doesn't require the mounted crossbow to be MC/HC - I would run them as LC if at all possible. Not great either way but the HC CB seems to get into too much trouble IMO.

Todd

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