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NICT Lists 2014
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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:18 pm    Post subject: NICT Lists 2014

Any chance in the near future? Love looking at the choices people made.

TK

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:21 pm    Post subject:

Hey Todd, if you want help getting the lists into some sort of forum-readable form, let me know. I'm happy to lend a hand.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:48 pm    Post subject: Anglo Irish NICT list

I think this was my 2013 list. I'll look in my records for earlier editions.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:04 am    Post subject: Early Byz

1 2 RB LC JLS SH 46 CinC
2 2 RB LC JLS SH 46 CinC
3 CinC as RA/B EHC/HC L B Sh PA 201 CinC
4 2 RC LI JLS Sh 26 CinC
5 2 RC LI JLS Sh 26 CinC
6 4 RC HI/MI LTS JLS D, Sh 122 CinC
7 4 RC HI/MI LTS JLS D, Sh 122 CinC
8 4 RC HI/MI LTS JLS D, Sh 122 CinC
9 4 RC HI/MI LTS JLS D, Sh 122 CinC
10 2 RC HI/MI LTS JLS D, Sh 66 CinC
11 4 RC LMI JLS D Sh 90 CinC
12 4 RC LMI B ½ Sh 66 CinC
13 4 RC LMI B ½ Sh 66 CinC
14 Sub as 4 RA/B EHC/HC L B Sh P 215 Sub
15 2 RB HC L B Sh 88 Sub
16 2 RB HC L B Sh 88 Sub
17 2 RB HC L B Sh 88 Sub
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:04 am    Post subject: Early Byz

1 2 RB LC JLS SH 46 CinC
2 2 RB LC JLS SH 46 CinC
3 CinC as RA/B EHC/HC L B Sh PA 201 CinC
4 2 RC LI JLS Sh 26 CinC
5 2 RC LI JLS Sh 26 CinC
6 4 RC HI/MI LTS JLS D, Sh 122 CinC
7 4 RC HI/MI LTS JLS D, Sh 122 CinC
8 4 RC HI/MI LTS JLS D, Sh 122 CinC
9 4 RC HI/MI LTS JLS D, Sh 122 CinC
10 2 RC HI/MI LTS JLS D, Sh 66 CinC
11 4 RC LMI JLS D Sh 90 CinC
12 4 RC LMI B ½ Sh 66 CinC
13 4 RC LMI B ½ Sh 66 CinC
14 Sub as 4 RA/B EHC/HC L B Sh P 215 Sub
15 2 RB HC L B Sh 88 Sub
16 2 RB HC L B Sh 88 Sub
17 2 RB HC L B Sh 88 Sub
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:05 am    Post subject: Early Byz

1 2 RB LC JLS SH 46 CinC
2 2 RB LC JLS SH 46 CinC
3 CinC as RA/B EHC/HC L B Sh PA 201 CinC
4 2 RC LI JLS Sh 26 CinC
5 2 RC LI JLS Sh 26 CinC
6 4 RC HI/MI LTS JLS D, Sh 122 CinC
7 4 RC HI/MI LTS JLS D, Sh 122 CinC
8 4 RC HI/MI LTS JLS D, Sh 122 CinC
9 4 RC HI/MI LTS JLS D, Sh 122 CinC
10 2 RC HI/MI LTS JLS D, Sh 66 CinC
11 4 RC LMI JLS D Sh 90 CinC
12 4 RC LMI B ½ Sh 66 CinC
13 4 RC LMI B ½ Sh 66 CinC
14 Sub as 4 RA/B EHC/HC L B Sh P 215 Sub
15 2 RB HC L B Sh 88 Sub
16 2 RB HC L B Sh 88 Sub
17 2 RB HC L B Sh 88 Sub
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:30 pm    Post subject: Testing

Testing
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:51 pm    Post subject:

Todd now has all the 2014 lists and given how he's been hot and bothered to do this project, we should see postings NOW!!!!!

Twisted Evil

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:27 pm    Post subject:

Bam!

I will sooooooo do this each and every year. I look forward to the usual commentary that follows. Feel free to post thoughts regarding your own list and why you configured it the way you did or ask questions/provide snarky comments as to other people's choices Smile (cough... Ewan....)

I am not a moderator, so I can' t post an attachment..... so here you go.

Hello fellow Warrior Gamers. Scott was kind enough to send me each and every NICT list from 2014. Since we have a variety of ways that people formatted their lists and configured points I have tried to standardize them to meet the lists for quicker consumption/ease of reading. Where I remembered the specific troop type I recorded it in the list, otherwise it is as it was given to our ChUmp (Mr. Holder).


Hun – list 33 – Imperial Warrior - Rich Kroupa

CinC 2E Ir B HC L,B,Sh – 150
Sub 2E Ir B HC L,B,Sh – 100
Sub 2E Ir B LC Jls,B,Sh/B – 68

4E Archers Ir D LI,B – 33
6E Franks 2E Ir C 4E Ir D MI HTW,Sh – 81
6E Franks 2E Ir C 4E Ir D MI HTW,Sh – 81
2E Camels Ir C MCm Jls,B,Sh - 61

6E Skirmishers Ir D (1C) LC B – 63
6E Skirmishers Ir D (1C) LC B – 63
6E Skirmishers Ir D (1C) LC B – 63

6E Skirmishers LC 1/3 Ir C Jls,B,Sh, 1/3 Ir C Jls,B, 1/3 Ir D B - 85
6E Skirmishers LC 1/3 Ir C Jls,B,Sh, 1/3 Ir C Jls,B, 1/3 Ir D B - 85

9E Skirmishers LC Ir C 1/3 Jls,B,Sh, 1/3 Jls,B, 1/3 B - 121
9E Skirmishers LC Ir C 1/3 Jls,B,Sh, 1/3 Jls,B, 1/3 B - 121

2E Noble Cav Ir B HC L,B,Sh – 85
2E Noble Cav Ir B HC L,B,Sh - 85
2E Noble Cav Ir B HC L,B,Sh - 85
2E Noble Cav Ir B HC L,B,Sh - 85
2E Noble Cav Ir B HC L,B,Sh - 85

Total Points 1600




Neo-Assyrian – Late period - Larry Daum

CinC 2E HCh Reg B Jls,B + 2 Jls – 157
Chariot Runner Reg B LMI Jls,D,Sh – 53
2E Qurubuti Sha Pithalli Reg A EHC/HC L,B – 83
Sub 2E HCh Reg B Jls,B + 2 Jls – 107
Chariot Runner Reg B LMI Jls,D,Sh – 53
2E Qurubuti Sha Pithalli Reg A EHC/HC L,B – 83

2E Chariots Reg B HCh 1w/ Jls,B 2 w/ Jls – 92
Chariot Runner Reg B LMI Jls,D,Sh – 53
2E Kisir Sharruti Reg B EHC/HC L,B – 82
2E Kisir Sharruti Reg B EHC/HC L,B – 82
12E SabSarri Scouts Reg C LC B – 82
6E Kisir Sharruti LHI/LMI (or HI/MI) LTS,Sh - 154
The list recorded both close and loose so……?
4E Sab Sarri Reg C LMI Jls,D,Sh – 90
4E Sab Sarri Reg C LMI B – 53
2E Sab Sarri Reg C LMI Jls,D,Sh – 74
12E Sha Kutalli Reg D MI Jls,D,Sh – 202
8E Dikut Mati Ir D MI B – 57
9E Aramean Archers Ir C LI B – 43

1600 points



Seleucid - Robert Turnbull

CinC 2E Reg A EHC/HC L – 154
Sub 2E Reg A EHC/HC L – 104
2E Companions Reg B EHC/HC L – 76
2E Settlers Reg C EHC/HC L – 64

8E Agyraspids Reg B ¼ HI ¾ MI P,Sh – 186
8E Settler Pike Reg C ¼ HI ¾ MI P,Sh – 154
8E Settler Pike Reg C ¼ HI ¾ MI P,Sh – 154

4E Peltasts Reg C LHI/LMI LTS,Jls,Sh – 106
3E Elephants Ir C 1 P, 1 Jls – 145
3E Elephants Ir C 1 P, 1 Jls – 145
8E LI Ir D LI B – 45
8E LI Ir D LI B – 45

Scythed Chariort IrA HCh – 24
Scythed Chariort IrA HCh – 24

6E Saka Ir C LC Jls,Sh – 91
2E Tarantines Reg C LC Jls,Sh - 42
2E Tarantines Reg C LC Jls,Sh - 42

1601 points






Ghaznavid - Greg Hauser

CinC 1E Elephant Ir B 1 w/ Jls, 1 w/ B, 1 w/P – 127
Sub - 2 Elephants Ir B 1 w/ Jls, 1 w/ B, 1 w/P – 115
Sub - 2 Elephants Ir B 1 w/ Jls, 1 w/ B, 1 w/P – 115
2E Ghulam Ir B HC L,B,Sh - 85
2E Ghulam Ir B HC L,B,Sh - 85
6E Nomad Merc Light Cav Ir C LC 1/3 Jls,B,Sh 2/3 B - 85

3 Elephants Ir B 1 w/ Jls, 1 w/ B, 1 w/P – 169
3 Elephants Ir B 1 w/ Jls, 1 w/ B, 1 w/P – 169
4E Daylami Reg B LHI LTS,B,Sh – 138
4E Daylami Reg B LHI LTS,B,Sh – 138

7E Arab Archers Ir C LI B ½ Sh – 65
6E Arab Archers Ir C LI B ½ Sh – 61
2E Stone Throwers Reg C 4 Crew – 90
2E Indian Cav Ir C EHC/MC L,Sh – 79
2E Indian Cav Ir C EHC/MC L,Sh – 79

Scouting 32.5
1600 points

Koryo Korean - Frank Gilson

CinC w/PA 2E Reg A/B EHC/HC L,Sh/L- 185
Sub 2E Reg A/B EHC/HC L,Sh/L-115
Sub 2E Reg A/B EHC/HC L,Sh/L-115

6E Reg D LI B - 34
6E Reg D(1 C) LMI B - 62

2E Mongol Reg B LC JLS,B/B - 42
2E Mongol Reg B LC JLS,B/B - 42
2E Mongol Reg B LC B- 38
6E Mongol Reg C LC B – 82
6E Mongol Reg C LC B – 82
4E Mongol Reg B HC/MC L,B,Sh/L,B - 142

6E Reg D(1C) MI LTS,B,Pa/LTS,B,Sh - 110
6E Reg D(1C) MI LTS,B,Pa/LTS,B,Sh - 110
6E Reg D(1C) MI LTS,B,Pa/LTS,B,Sh - 110
6E Reg D(1C) MI LTS,B,Pa/LTS,B,Sh - 110
6E Reg D(1C) MI LTS,B,Pa/LTS,B,Sh - 110
6E Reg D(1C) MI LTS,B,Pa/LTS,B,Sh - 110

1599
17 units, 3 cmds, 67 scouting



Moldavian - Scott McDonald

CinC 2E Ir A/B HK L,Sh PA – 172
Sub 2E Ir A/B HK L,Sh P – 112
2E Ir A/B HK L,Sh – 94
2E Ir A/B HK L,Sh - 94
2E Ir A/B HK L,Sh - 94
2E Ir A/B HK L,Sh – 94
12 Archers Ir C LI B – 49
6 Ir C LC B 2 w/ Sh, 5 w/ Jls – 91
8 Ir C LC B 3w/ Sh, 7 w/ Jls – 115
8 Ir C LC B 3w/ Sh, 7 w/ Jls – 115

Ally Gen 2E Knights Ir B SHK L,Sh P – 170
2 E Knights Ir B SHK L,Sh – 133
4E Ir B LC Jls,Sh 3 w/ L 1 w/ B – 89
4E Ir B LC Jls,Sh 3 w/ L 1 w/ B – 89
4E Ir B LC Jls,Sh 3 w/ L 1 w/ B – 89

1600 points

Komnenan Byzantine - Derek Downs

CnC 2E Reg A/B EHK/HK L SH RA/B – 204
2E Ir B HK L,Sh – 91
2E Reg B HC/MC L,Sh - 70
2E Ir A/B HK L,Sh – 94
2E Ir A/B HK L,Sh – 94
8E Ir D (1C) LC B – 75
2E Reg B HC L,B,Sh – 88
2E Reg B HC L,B,Sh – 88
2E Reg C LC B – 34
4E Ir C LC B ½ Jls – 61
4E Reg D (1C) MI LTS,Sh – 62
4E Reg D (1C) MI LTS,Sh – 62
4E Reg D (1C) MI LTS,Sh – 62

4E Reg D LMI Jls,B,Sh – 74
2E Reg D LI S,Sh – 22
2E Reg D LI S,Sh – 22
2E Reg D LI S,Sh – 22
4E Varangians Reg B (1A) LHI/LMI 2HCW,Jls,Sh – 126
4E Varangians Reg B (1A) LHI/LMI 2HCW,Jls,Sh - 126
4E Varangians Reg B (1A) LHI/LMI 2HCW,Jls,Sh - 126

1603

Inca - Dan Woyke

CinC 4E Reg A LMI 2HCT,S,Sh/Jls,S,Sh – 242
Sub 4E Reg A LMI 2HCT,S,Sh/Jls,S,Sh – 167

6E Reg B LMI LTS,S,Sh – 154
4E Reg C/D LMI HTW,Jls,S,Sh – 102
4E Reg C/D LMI HTW,Jls,S,Sh – 102

4 Reg B LMI LTS,S,Sh – 106
4 Reg B LMI LTS,S,Sh – 106
4 Reg B LMI LTS,S,Sh – 106

4E Reg C LMI HTW,S,Sh/Jls,S,Sh – 90
4E Reg C LMI HTW,S,Sh/Jls,S,Sh – 90
4E Reg C LMI HTW,S,Sh/Jls,S,Sh – 90

4E Reg D (1C) LI Jls,D,Sh/D,Sh – 40
4E Reg D (1C) LI Jls,D,Sh/D,Sh - 40
4E Reg D (1C) LI Jls,D,Sh/D,Sh - 40

6E Reg D (1C) LMI 2HCW,B,Sh/B – 84
2x 6 elements of walls – 40

Medieval Irish - Jake Kovel

CinC 1E Ir B LC Jls,Sh + PA – 122
6E Kerns Ir C LI S,Sh/Jls – 55
6E Ir C LI B – 49
8E Bonnachts Ir C LMI 2HCW,Jls,Sh/Jls,Sh - 109
8E Bonnachts Ir C LMI 2HCW,Jls,Sh/Jls,Sh - 109
8E Bonnachts Ir C LMI 2HCW,Jls,Sh/Jls,Sh - 109

Sub Gen 8E Ir B HI/MI 2HCW,Jls,D/Jls,D – 225
8E Ir B HI/MI 2HCW,Jls,D/Jls,D – 201
8E Ir B HI/MI 2HCW,Jls,D/Jls,D – 201

Ally Gen 4E Ir B HK/HC L,Sh P – 178
4E Ir B HK/HC L,Sh – 145
6E Ir C LC Jls – 97

1600

Early Byzantine - Jamie White

CinC 2E Reg A/B EHC/HC L,B,Sh PA – 201
2E Reg B LC Jls,Sh – 46
2E Reg B LC Jls,Sh – 46
2E Reg C LI Jls,Sh – 26
2E Reg C LI Jls,Sh – 26

4E Reg C HI/MI LTS,Jls,D,Sh – 122
4E Reg C HI/MI LTS,Jls,D,Sh – 122
4E Reg C HI/MI LTS,Jls,D,Sh – 122
4E Reg C HI/MI LTS,Jls,D,Sh – 122
2E Reg C HI/MI LTS,Jls,D,Sh – 66

4E Reg C LMI Jls,D,Sh – 90
4E Reg C LMI B ½ Sh – 66
4E Reg C LMI B ½ Sh – 66

Sub 4E Reg A/B EHC/HC L,B,Sh P – 215
2E Reg B HC L,B,Sh – 88
2E Reg B HC L,B,Sh – 88
2E Reg B HC L,B,Sh – 88


Tepanec - Bill Low

CinC 4E Reg A LMI 1HCW,D,Sh (1E S instead of D) PA – 151
4 Knights Reg B (1A) LMI LTS,S,Sh – 110
4 Knights Reg B (1A) LMI LTS,S,Sh – 110
4 Knights Reg B (1A) LMI LTS,S,Sh – 110
4 Knights Reg B (1A) LMI LTS,S,Sh – 110

4E Vet. Warriors Reg B (1A) LMI LTS,S,Sh – 110
4E Vet. Warriors Reg B (1A) LMI LTS,S,Sh – 110

4E Warriors Reg C LMI 2HCT,S,Sh – 106
4E Warriors Reg C LMI 2HCT,S,Sh – 106
4E Subject War. Reg C LMI 1HCW,Jls,Sh – 90
4E Otomi Ir C LMI 2HCW,Jls/Jls,Sh – 67

2E Otomi Ir A LMI 2HCT,Jls,Sh/1HCW,Jls,Sh – 64
2E Otomi Ir A LMI 2HCT,Jls,Sh/1HCW,Jls,Sh – 64
2E Otomi Ir A LMI 2HCT,Jls,Sh/1HCW,Jls,Sh – 64
2E Otomi Ir A LMI 2HCT,Jls,Sh/1HCW,Jls,Sh – 64

2E Skirmishers Reg C LI 1HCW,S,Sh – 30
2E Skirmishers Reg C LI 1HCW,S,Sh – 30
2E Skirmishers Reg C LI S,Sh – 26
2E Skirmishers Reg C LI S,Sh - 26
2E Skirmishers Reg C LI S,Sh - 26
2E Skirmishers Reg C LI S,Sh - 26

Scouting 6 points 1600

Abyssinian – 1595 points - Todd Kaeser

CinC 2E Ir B EHC/HC L,D,Sh (EP) – 174
2E Heavy Cav Ir A EHC/HC L,D,Sh (EP) - 103
2E Heavy Cav Ir A EHC/HC L,D,Sh (EP) - 103
2E Heavy Cav Ir A EHC/HC L,D,Sh (EP) - 103

4E Light Cavalry Ir C LC Jls,D,Sh (EP) - 89

2E Elephants Ir C dr. Jls & 1 Jls - 105
2E Elephants Ir C dr. Jls & 1 Jls - 105

9E spearmen LMI 1/3 Ir A 2HCW,Jls,Sh 2/3 Ir C Jls,Sh - 133
9E spearmen LMI 1/3 Ir A 2HCW,Jls,Sh 2/3 Ir C Jls,Sh - 133

12E Bowmen Ir C MI B 1/2 Sh – 145
12E Bowmen Ir C MI B 1/2 Sh – 145

4E Portuguese Musketeers Reg C LHI/LMI 1HCW,CB 1/2Sh - 98
6E Javelinmen Ir C LI Jls,Sh – 61

4E Slingers Ir C LI S,Sh – 49
4E Slingers Ir C LI S,Sh - 49
EP = Elephant proof
27 scouting (81/9)

Alexandrian Imperial - Dave Dietrich

CinC 2E Reg A HC L – 150
Sub 2E Reg A HC L – 100
Sub 2E Reg A HC L – 100

6E Cretan Archers Reg C LI B ½ Sh – 52
6E Arachosians Ir C LC Jls,B – 85
6E Skythians Ir C LC Jls,B,Sh/B – 91
2E Companions Reg A HC L – 70
2E Bactrians Ir B HC L,B – 73
2E Bactrians Ir B HC L,B – 73
6E Persians Ir C LI S,Sh/B – 55
4E Phalangites Reg C HI/MI P,Sh – 90
4E Phalangites Reg C HI/MI P,Sh – 90
2E Elephants Ir C 1 w/P, 1w/Jls – 105
2E Elephants Ir C 1 w/P, 1w/Jls – 105

6E Agrinians Ir C LI Jls,Sh – 61
4E Greek Peltasts Reg C LMI LTS,Jls,Sh – 90
4E Greek Peltasts Reg C LMI LTS,Jls,Sh – 90

2E Hypaspists Reg A/B LHI/LMI LTS,Sh – 62
2E Hypaspists Reg A/B LHI/LMI LTS,Sh - 62


Later Polish - 1596 Phil Gardocki

CinC 2E Ir B SHK,L,Sh + PA - 230
Sub 2E Ir B SHK,L,Sh + P – 160
2E Knights Ir B SHK/EHK L,Sh - 124
2E Knights Ir B SHK/EHK L,Sh - 124
4E Knights Ir B/C SHK /HC L,Sh – 181

9E Lituanians Ir B LC Jls,B,Sh - 169
8E Lituanians Ir B LC Jls,B,Sh - 153
6E Wallachian Ir C LC Jls,B,Sh – 109
4E Bowmen Ir C LMI 2HCW,B,Sh/B 61

Lithuanian Sub 2E Ir B HC,JLS,L,B,Sh - 110
2E Mounted Crossbow Reg C HC CB - 58
2E Mounted Crossbow Ir C MC CB - 49
2E Tartars Reg C LC B – 34
2E Tartars Reg C LC B – 34

Total........................................... 1596
Scouting Points..... 89
Outscouted by...... 267
Outscouts........... 29.5

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Last edited by Todd Kaeser on Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:19 pm; edited 4 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:03 pm    Post subject: Huns

Ok, let's get this party started. A few general comments:
* It would be good to have the player's name associated with the list; I'll add that in my commentary when I know who it is.
* It would also be good to present the scouting points with each list; again, I'll add that in my commentary as I go if not already present.

First up:

Quote:

Hun – list 33 – Imperial Warrior

CinC 2E Ir B HC L,B,Sh – 150
Sub 2E Ir B HC L,B,Sh – 100
Sub 2E Ir B LC Jls,B,Sh/B – 68

4E Archers Ir D LI,B – 33
6E Franks 2E Ir C 4E Ir D MI HTW,Sh – 81
6E Franks 2E Ir C 4E Ir D MI HTW,Sh – 81
2E Camels Ir C MCm Jls,B,Sh - 61

6E Skirmishers Ir D (1C) LC B – 63
6E Skirmishers Ir D (1C) LC B – 63
6E Skirmishers Ir D (1C) LC B – 63

6E Skirmishers LC 1/3 Ir C Jls,B,Sh, 1/3 Ir C Jls,B, 1/3 Ir D B - 85
6E Skirmishers LC 1/3 Ir C Jls,B,Sh, 1/3 Ir C Jls,B, 1/3 Ir D B - 85

9E Skirmishers LC Ir C 1/3 Jls,B,Sh, 1/3 Jls,B, 1/3 B - 121
9E Skirmishers LC Ir C 1/3 Jls,B,Sh, 1/3 Jls,B, 1/3 B - 121

2E Noble Cav Ir B HC L,B,Sh – 85
2E Noble Cav Ir B HC L,B,Sh - 85
2E Noble Cav Ir B HC L,B,Sh - 85
2E Noble Cav Ir B HC L,B,Sh - 85
2E Noble Cav Ir B HC L,B,Sh - 85

Total Points 1600


This is Rich Kroupa's list, and I played against the 2000 point version of this at Cold Wars in 2014. Total scouting points here is an impressive 164 scouting points.

Rich has a knack for developing lists that do one thing overwhemlingly well, and this is another case in point.

It's easy to look at the so-called "shock" troops here -- HC L,B,Sh -- and think "no way; these guys can't beat anything of consequence". Don't be so easily fooled, though.

The plan here is clearly to win the battle quickly, and win it in the engagement of light troops. All the Hun light cavalry fights rank and a half, and there is so much of it that even an opponent ordinarily strong in light troops can get overwhelmed here. The light cav can fill the whole table. They can deploy 3 ranks deep to limit their vulnerability to shooting without limiting the density of their own firepower (3 ranks of mounted skirmishing still fire in 2 full ranks). And these troops can deploy in skirmish formation, ready to make a full approach on Bound 1.

So anyone with any kind of screen of light troops has to be very careful right at the outset. If they are not careful they will find their own light troops rallying back, often disordered, with Hun light cav charging them. That can easily result in some early routs that may cause higher value units to shake (if any of the routers are light cav), or at a minimum may leave flanks vulnerable to the HC that lurk behind the Hun LC.

The problem for the Huns is that's really all they've got. If they are unable to sweep enemy lights away quickly and turn that to some decisive advantage, the battle quickly goes downhill from there. Against the risk that an opponent presents a wall of close order foot, there are a couple of small HTW units here that give the Huns some sort of vague option, but it's a pretty token gesture. Survive the swarm of light troops in the first bound or so, and you should be able to handle the Huns from there.

This army would match up well against armies that normally think of themselves as strong in light cav (Wallachian/Moldovian, Later Polish) but would have a very tough time against Meso Americans or a Far Eastern foot bow army like Koryo Korean, and a tough time against any well played elephant army.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:15 pm    Post subject:

I added the names to the lists as per Mark's request.

Todd

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:08 pm    Post subject:

Up next we have:

Quote:

Neo-Assyrian – Late period - Larry Daum

CinC 2E HCh Reg B Jls,B + 2 Jls – 157
Chariot Runner Reg B LMI Jls,D,Sh – 53
2E Qurubuti Sha Pithalli Reg A EHC/HC L,B – 83
Sub 2E HCh Reg B Jls,B + 2 Jls – 107
Chariot Runner Reg B LMI Jls,D,Sh – 53
2E Qurubuti Sha Pithalli Reg A EHC/HC L,B – 83

2E Chariots Reg B HCh 1w/ Jls,B 2 w/ Jls – 92
Chariot Runner Reg B LMI Jls,D,Sh – 53
2E Kisir Sharruti Reg B EHC/HC L,B – 82
2E Kisir Sharruti Reg B EHC/HC L,B – 82
12E SabSarri Scouts Reg C LC B – 82
6E Kisir Sharruti LHI/LMI (or HI/MI) LTS,Sh - 154
The list recorded both close and loose so……?
4E Sab Sarri Reg C LMI Jls,D,Sh – 90
4E Sab Sarri Reg C LMI B – 53
2E Sab Sarri Reg C LMI Jls,D,Sh – 74
12E Sha Kutalli Reg D MI Jls,D,Sh – 202
8E Dikut Mati Ir D MI B – 57
9E Aramean Archers Ir C LI B – 43

1600 points



48.5 scouting points here. I also played against the 2000 point version of this list at Cold Wars 2014.

This is one of only 3 or 4 lists in Biblical Warrior that can play competitively in an open tournament. While people tend to focus here on list rules that give the JLS-armed foot some extra punch, the real unique point of this list is the combination of heavy chariots and lance-armed cavalry. The chariots can go frontally against the only cavalry the lancers are worried about (knights), and the cavalry can chase down things that normally evade away from the 120p charge reach of the chariots.

The setup here is a standard skirmisher line backed by shock troops, with the skirmisher line consisting of the light troops and loose order foot. The loose order foot represents some of the best brush troops in the game, giving the Assyrians greater adaptability than most armies to a wide range of terrain setups.

While this army doesn't overwhelm any of the other strong armies, it has versatility to give it options against any opponent. In short: this is a finesse army.

Against Meso Americans or Asian foot archers, you'd use your own shooting to face off toe to toe with the enemy loose order, and then look for a hinge in the enemy line or a unit on the end of the line on which you could concentrate chariots effectively, using your EHC to keep the opponent from simply skirmishing away.

Against a pike and elephant or purely elephant army, you use the superiority of shooting to keep the elephants at bay, and your ability to skirmish to stay out of reach of the pikemen. This matchup would come down to maneuver, with the Assyrians hoping to exploit terrain to mass superior brush troops to their advantage, or looking to stretch the enemy line and exploit an open flank or isolated unit with the reach and maneuverability of regular mounted. Against a knight army you'd play a counter punching style, looking to do as much damage with shooting as possible in the hopes of leaving the knights tired and/or disordered by the time they come in for contact, and then challenging them with the chariots supported by the EHC in follow up.

One interesting wrinkle here: mounted can charge through routing loose order foot, and all the Assyrian mounted is high morale. So it is possible that the opponent -- say, a knight army -- successfully mounts a charge against the Assyrian LMI and routs it, only to have chariots or lancers take the waver and charge back through the routers into the pursuers who are now at a disadvantage.

Overall I'd be concerned that the army lacks enough shock power, leading to drawish games against a careful opponent. It also has a few weak points as configured. The shieldless LMI archers strike me as a weak point that could get the Assyrian player into trouble. They are vulnerable to shooting, or to a careful charge where prep shooting has been screened off from the chargers. And the light troops here aren't very high quality. They are vulnerable to concentrated shooting and also vulnerable to quality enemy light cav that, if played carefully, can charge the lights without fear of reprisal from the lancers or chariots (non-impetuous light cav that ends up pursuing a routing enemy can simply evade if charged).

So overall an intriguing army if imperfect. It requires real finesse to play, but presents some exotic challenges not often seen that may confound an opponent not used to seeing these matchups.
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Mark Stone
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:30 pm    Post subject:

Moving on, we have:

Quote:

Seleucid - Robert Turnbull

CinC 2E Reg A EHC/HC L – 154
Sub 2E Reg A EHC/HC L – 104
2E Companions Reg B EHC/HC L – 76
2E Settlers Reg C EHC/HC L – 64

8E Agyraspids Reg B ¼ HI ¾ MI P,Sh – 186
8E Settler Pike Reg C ¼ HI ¾ MI P,Sh – 154
8E Settler Pike Reg C ¼ HI ¾ MI P,Sh – 154

4E Peltasts Reg C LHI/LMI LTS,Jls,Sh – 106
3E Elephants Ir C 1 P, 1 Jls – 145
3E Elephants Ir C 1 P, 1 Jls – 145
8E LI Ir D LI B – 45
8E LI Ir D LI B – 45

Scythed Chariort IrA HCh – 24
Scythed Chariort IrA HCh – 24

6E Saka Ir C LC Jls,Sh – 91
2E Tarantines Reg C LC Jls,Sh - 42
2E Tarantines Reg C LC Jls,Sh - 42


46 scouting points in total, which is a hefty number for a pike and elephant army.

Obviously one of the best lists in the game, played by one of our best players. Versatility and a lot of shock power, all in one list.

The light troops are probably the weakest part of the list, but they are adequate. The LI would really benefit from having shields, but you can't just casually run them down with the lancers lurking in the backfield. So it takes some care to take them out, and in the mean time they are very cheap space fillers. The LC is solid, just not very numerous, so probably operates intermixed with the LI so the LI can soak off some shooting.

Only one peltast unit, and only 16 figures, but front rank upgraded to LHI. So this unit can dependably anchor a terrain feature at one end of the line.

The scythed chariots are very hard to use. If I were playing this list, I wouldn't take them, opting instead for some additional light troops. But I've played against Robert playing this list, and he uses them very well. Because they have to be "defused" before you can do anything else, at a minimum they delay a desired assault on a weak flank. If you spend two bounds or so dealing with the chariots, there just isn't much time left to exploit any weaknesses behind them.

And in the new deployment system scythed chariots have a real purpose. Think of it this way: put them in the smaller of the two commands, so that that command goes down last. Now note that most armies in the nationals have (a) less than 46 scouting points and (b) no more than two commands. That means that most of the time you'll be placing the command containing the chariots after your opponent has set up his entire army. That means you can line them to lead the attack for maximum effect.

The real strength of this army is in the pikes and elephants, and the combination thereof. Robert opts for the broadest possible impact here, with 3 units of 32 figures of pike, with the elephants presumably in the gaps (and stepped back from the front line initially). There's a lot to be said for this approach. Many armies can counter pikes at one spot in the line, but can't counter them all across the line. So the broad frontage of pressure here will be enough to win many games. However, I would take the Reg B pike and split them into 2 16 figure units. Here's why.

Very few troop types can beat pikes straight up and sustain that advantage in follow up bounds. For example:
* EHC with firelance win at contact, but lose rank and a half in follow up
* HTW win at contact, but lose HTW in follow up
* 2HCW + JLS can win at contact, but become shieldless in follow up

No, the way to beat pikes is with combined arms: mounted and foot charging together, where the foot provide the margin of victory and the mounted assure that the pike not only become disordered but have to recoil. However, to pull this off you have to have at least 2 elements of pike frontage to attack: one for your mounted unit and one for your foot unit.

So in turn the way for pikes to address combined arms attacks is to operate in 16 figure units only one element wide.

The bottom line: by running all of his pikes in 32 figure units, Robert is leaving himself vulnerable to combined arms attacks. For example, among the other lists in this year's Nationals, the Komnenan Byzantines could have knights and Varangians charging together at the pikes, which would be devestating for the pikes.

A final comment is just the reminder of how vulnerable elephants are to shooting. There are an abundance of shooting-heavy armies in the Nationals, from the Meso Americans to the Asian foot archer armies. So as powerful as the combo of pikes and elephants charging together is, it is by no means a given that the Seleucid player will be able to pull this off.

In sum: a great list that I would tweak slightly were I to run it, but even with a list this powerful there are ways to beat it. It all comes down to the player in the end.[/list]
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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Huns

Quote:
It's easy to look at the so-called "shock" troops here -- HC L,B,Sh -- and think "no way; these guys can't beat anything of consequence". Don't be so easily fooled, though.


Just a thought to add to Mark's thoughts on Rich's Hun list - follow that??? Wink

Our gaming group in NE has often said a lance is a lance, is a lance.... When following up HC lancers are just as good as knights. Derek has run with this philosophy in the past even using medium cav (yuck right?) Rolling Eyes The benefit of the knights is the ability to withstand the damage of a charge, but if you are second waving an attack then HC is just fine as they're hitting possibly disordered and tired opponents.

Hun is a tough army, but it's best format is in 15mm on a bigger table - more space to use all that LC and chase down opponent's lights. There are less lights to fight in 25mm and less table space to roam. It really will struggle vs. armies with dense shooting - Mark's fav 10IS Chinese, Meso-Americans, HYW etc... Then the HC has to be the spearhead and they can't take the same punishment as knights can.

Rich's army is beautifully painted btw... the camels are a wow.

Todd K

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Mark Stone
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:13 pm    Post subject:

Next:

Quote:
Ghaznavid - Greg Hauser

CinC 1E Elephant Ir B 1 w/ Jls, 1 w/ B, 1 w/P – 127
Sub - 2 Elephants Ir B 1 w/ Jls, 1 w/ B, 1 w/P – 115
Sub - 2 Elephants Ir B 1 w/ Jls, 1 w/ B, 1 w/P – 115
2E Ghulam Ir B HC L,B,Sh - 85
2E Ghulam Ir B HC L,B,Sh - 85
6E Nomad Merc Light Cav Ir C LC 1/3 Jls,B,Sh 2/3 B - 85

3 Elephants Ir B 1 w/ Jls, 1 w/ B, 1 w/P – 169
3 Elephants Ir B 1 w/ Jls, 1 w/ B, 1 w/P – 169
4E Daylami Reg B LHI LTS,B,Sh – 138
4E Daylami Reg B LHI LTS,B,Sh – 138

7E Arab Archers Ir C LI B ½ Sh – 65
6E Arab Archers Ir C LI B ½ Sh – 61
2E Stone Throwers Reg C 4 Crew – 90
2E Indian Cav Ir C EHC/MC L,Sh – 79
2E Indian Cav Ir C EHC/MC L,Sh – 79

Scouting 32.5


Missing LC unit now added in

Greg and I first gamed together more than 30 years ago. He's part of the "Rochester Club" that includes Dave Stier, Chris Schulitz, Jevon Garrett, Christian Cameron, and Frank Gilson. Greg and Chris are the only ones currently living in the Rochester area, and Greg is the only one of us who has lived in Rochester this whole time. I've watched him really evolve and mature as a gamer, and this list is a reflection of that.

Ghaznavids is a great list, fielding what are arguably the best elephants in the game, and fielding them in quantity. Elephants witih pike-armed crew beat pikemen straight up, but barely. On the many Alexandrian and Successor lists on which this elephant type can be found, taking your chances with your elephants straight up against pikemen is perilous. Why? Because you're Irr C, with a comensurate volatility in die rolls. By contrast the Ghaznavid elephants are Irr B, making their melee performance much more predictable.

The Ghaznavid list has three difficulties. First, the native Ghaznavid cavalry is not elephant proof, making it difficult to operate with the elephants. Second, The key troop types here -- elephants, Daylami -- are expensive, meaning fewer units covering less frontage than many opposing armies. With only a handful of light troops, it can be difficult to both cover enough frontage and keep flanks of all line troops secure.

Greg's approach to this problem is to use the stone throwers, and to further have a staff element general on hand to direct the fire of the stone throwers. While this is not the approach I would take, it is a technique that Greg has perfected, and those who do not think through the effect of the stone throwers as they close with Greg's army do so at their own peril.

For my part I look at the general and stone throwers and see 217 points sitting in the backfield that could be better used elsewhere. I would take one of the 3 elephant units, reduce it to 2 elephants, and combine the 3rd elephant with the CinC to make another elephant unit. This is all at zero cost. I'd drop the stone throwers and take more light troops, probably starting with the Daylami Reg B LI.

I also have mixed feelings about the Indian cavalry. I completely understand Greg's intent here: as the only elephant-proof cav available on the list these guys can advance with the elephants and be used to chase of enemy LI that would otherwise screen off the elephants. That's a valid use, and EHC lancers have other uses as well (following up into overlaps of units the elephants have charged, for example. I'm just not sure 2 of these units are necessary. I'd take just one, and again dump points into light troops (more light cav in this case).

The third difficulty, related to the second, is that this army is pretty vulnerable to shooting. That's another argument for maxing out the available LI, since they provide the most points efficient way on the list of deflecting the impact of enemy shooting.

Overall a very potent list, but one that has to be used with great care given it's vulnerabilities.


Last edited by Mark Stone on Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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