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baggage camps

 
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AUXILIAPAL
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:52 am    Post subject: baggage camps

Hello folks

We had lately an interesting fight between Sassanids and early Byzantine.
But we had problems to find how fighting baggage camps goes. I found only the passage about them (14.44)...
So we have 4 Irregular D transport elements (counting as 5 figures?), first should they be positionned in a block or in file and second, if only a ennemy element is contacting the camp how much baggage transports fights?
And what is it with protected camps???

Thanks for your interest, have a nice weekend, yours Robert Very Happy

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Ed Kollmer
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:43 pm    Post subject:

Ahhh.... Camps....
I have the Clinic report on camps that was put out a while ago.
I will have to dig it up.

The one about protected camps. I'm trying to remember about Roman
camps that were ditched palisades.
Will get back to you.
Hopefully, someone with more expertise with the rules will answer.
EdK
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Ed Kollmer
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:58 am    Post subject:

OK Kollmer here!
Reporting back. Found the Clinic.
I will now get it to you.
"Hand to Hand Combat:
Again, baggage camps are transport targets. Yes, there is a Tr column on the hth table. Look right below medium cav- there it is again. Transport that takes 3CPF from HtH and support shooting is disordered. Immobile transport that is forced to recoil is destroyed. Just like shooting, transport counts as 5 figs equivalents per element for CPF, so a standard baggage camp given to a player by 14.44 counts as 20 figs. This means to do anyting to a normal camp, you will have to do at least 20 casualties. Note that a single element of LC usuallyu cannot do this even 'rolling up', so ake sure you have your LC 2 element wide or more when ou make contact, otherwise you will be stuckto the camp indefinitely. Or use some other troop type just make sure you can do 20 casualties even on a later bound and note the impact of not abeing able to expand if ou do not do 20 the first time.
The biggest issues with camps and HtH are waver tests and the camp fighting back.First , camps do take waver tests. They are D class and take waver tests as foot troops unless the camp is mobile. Since all immobile camps are foot troops and loose order and since camps can only deploy in clear terrain, tey will take the waver test for foot responding to a mounted charge in the open uless the players list allows obstacles or temporary fortifications and such are between the camp and the charging mounted.
The second big issue is that camps do NOT fight back. Baggage camps have no armed figs and do not fight in HtH. There is no way to place fighting figs 'in' a camp as camp elements are separate transport and not obstacles or the type of transport that permits combining two elements in the same space. If a player wants troops to guard a camp, on or more units must be left in proximity to the camp and the appropriate orders given to that command.

Morale
AS noted above, baggage camps have D morale and are irregular bodies. They take waver tests and are shaken when they fail the first one. As transport is destroyed when broken, they never make rout moves.

Rules clarifications:
"14.44(p 8Cool Baggage camps may not deploy in difficult terrain. A stationary baggage camp must deploy with one edge in contact with the base table edge ad is destroyed if it must recoil or if the command it is assigned to is subject to retreat orders. A mobile baggage camp's tactical move an march rates are 80p and 2 segments respectively and a mobile camp retreats as any other body. A baggage camp may take a fail waver tests and my therefore become shaken. Note that any transport element is destroyed when broken.

Baggage Camp Combat Example:
A 4E nit of IrC LC B in a 2Ex2E block has broken through the enemy's line and is 200p from his camp. In the charge phase, the LC declares a charge on the camp. It is not impetuous as the LC unit in this case is more than 240p form any friendly body and is therefore uneasy die to lack of support. The camp is immobile and so takes a waver test for responding to a mtd charge in the open, rolls a '6' and passes. The LC makes contact with 2E as the camp is also in a 2Ex2E block.
The LC support shoots: B on Tr is a 5 (-2) for being in contact is a 3. Note that Tr is never 'shieldless'. 4 figs from the back rank of the LC shoot, 4@3, rolling even, is 10.
Then the LC fights: Other cav on Tr is a 5 (+1) for charging is a 6. Rolling even, 4@6 is 20. The camp does not fight as camps do not contain armed figs. As the LC did more casualties and 1CPF to the camp, it recoils and since it is immobile, it is destroyed.
Some things to note. On even dice, the LC did not need to support shoot, but it is good insurance against a down HtH roll. If the LC could only make contact on 1E of camp, the HtH would have been 2@6, producing 10 casualties on even dice and just killing the camp. If you do not have a B and make contact on only 1E, you will need one or more of the following to kill the camp: JLS, impetuous charge, be in 2Ex2E for the subsequent bound , up roll."

There is more to the Clinic report but I think this answers your question.
Oh, I think you can make your camp in line or any shape as long as on side is on the board edge. Actually, I made a roman camp with a palisade around it. I paid for the palisade. I also made a Romano-Brit camp with a palisade I can have palisades on the list. I also thought that if I Put a ditched palisade around the camp at least an element wide distant from the camp edge and then put some LI Jls,sh in that space (since no armed troops allowed in the camp) That way my camp is protected. I never did it but I am not sure if it would work.
Anyway, hope this helps.

Ed K
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AUXILIAPAL
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:46 am    Post subject:

Thanks Edd that's a response!!! Very Happy

Yours Robert

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