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A Four Horsemen Enterprises Rules Set
 
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Frank Gilson
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:06 pm    Post subject: Zulu

Matt Kollmer wrote:
Please do call me out as biased.... as I very well may be, I'd argue that the Zulu list rule does in fact override the rules. All list rules are "rule breakers " in nature. Choosing to halt is your reaction to receiving 2 CPF from shooting, regardless of whether evading is considered voluntary or not, the list rule here states "may always evade if charged, regardless of formation" ....period. I'm not a lawyer by any means, but my new job has taught me some law and the wordage is what matters, not the intent.
So if Zulu (Bantu) foot is charged, it may evade. There are no stipulations where/when it applies.


Ok, frequently, we don't take everything into account when writing list rules, we can't. So, you'll often find us not even thinking of something like choosing to halt, which means halt (no voluntary movement, no matter what), when writing something like:
"Loose order Bantu Infantry may always evade if charged, regardless of formation."

Which, while it could be interpreted as you suggest, would then be in conflict with the halt due to 2 CPF from shooting rules...as we don't write list rules or army book rules in 'they win if they are in conflict'...we actually try hard for them to never be in conflict...so that things are clear.

So, if your Zulus are not in skirmish, and somehow take 2 CPF from shooting, you must waver or stand halted...and if you stand halted...you cannot evade if charged...and perhaps Bill will fix the Bantu Infantry Rules...so that they are no longer even apparently in conflict.

Frank
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Matt Kollmer
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:03 pm    Post subject:

Again, your comments speak of the intent, the rule states otherwise. other list rules override rules in the book as well, such as Varangian using 2HCW and fighting 1 1/2 ranks. This entire thread was based on the actual language used in the rule book to enforce them.
Obviously you can't account for everything when writing rules, new rules often have unintended consequences, but I don't think it's a streach to assume that if the rule states "evade in any situation" that it wouldn't apply when choosing to halt. The intent of "halt" would be to avoid further danger, as is to "evade" This was one reason I really liked the rule, it allowed for this flexibility.
If this is an official, "that's not how the rule works, its works like this " situation, then fine. It definilty nerfs the rule and IMHO the Zulus.... granted , they are tough, but your already extremely vulnerable to mounted lancers and this makes that's scenario worse. The main reason I don't think the zulu are a top tier army.
I do feel the rule should be amended to reflect your intent.
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scott holder
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject:

Bill's got a lot of other Warrior related stuff on his plate at the moment so any rewording for intent will hafta wait.

In the meantime, play it like Frank has said.

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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject:

Maybe as "Bantu" another option for the Zulus would be to recall if they take 2cpf from shooting when not in skirmish (as they are likely to be as why would anyone adopt the formation with their options?).

They could, waiver to remain, halt or recall - this would fit with their regular options as Bantu foot.

Todd

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