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2018 NICT Lists
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Frank Gilson
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:11 am    Post subject: 12th place Frank Gilson Ghaznavid

CinC PA 2 Irr B El P/JLS/B
3 Irr B El P/JLS/B
6E Irr C LC B
6E Irr C LC B
6E Irr C LC B
6E Irr C LC B
6E Irr C LI B,Sh/B
8E Irr D LI B
2E Reg B LI CB,Sh
2E Reg B HC L,B,Sh
2E Reg B HC L,B,Sh
Sub P 3 Irr B El P/JLS/B
4E Reg B LHI LTS,B,Sh
2E Reg B LI CB,Sh
Sub P 3 Irr B El P/JLS/B
4E Reg B LHI LTS,B,Sh
2E Reg B LI CB,Sh


Last edited by Frank Gilson on Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject: 16th place Chris Novak Later Teutonic Knights

I don't have Mr. Novak's list...anybody? He featured a lot of large Reg D LMI units (Prussian foot), some knights and some LI/LC.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:56 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
2 x Reg A/C SHK/EHK L,Sh (CinC)
2 x Irr B SHK/EHK L,Sh (Ally)
2x Reg C SHK/EHK L,Sh
2 x Reg C LC CB
2 x Reg C LC CB
2 x Reg C LC CB
6 x Irr C LC B
2 x Reg C LMI JLS,Sh
4 x Reg C HI LTS,Pa/LTS,Sh
6 x Reg D LI CB
4 x Reg D LI CB
2 x Reg D LI CB
2 x Irr B SHK/EHK L,Sh
2 x Irr B SHK/EHK L,Sh
2 x Reg B SHK/HK L,Sh/L
2 x Reg B SHK/HK L,Sh/L
2 x Reg C LHI 2HCW,LB,Sh/LB
2 x Reg C LHI 2HCW,LB,Sh/LB
4 x Reg C LMI LB,Sh/LB
4 x Reg C LMI LB,Sh/LB


I was very curious about Mark's list and I can see some appeal to it already. Plenty of knights (7 total) and a mix of irreg and reg. Great for dismounting (there are a few pics of this army in the album section and you can see dismounted knights) as they are front rank SHI 2HCW, Sh and back EHI Jls,Sh. Great to dismount to fight and deal with mass shooting.

There is some shooting here as well and 2 units of multi-purpose shooting. Not the number of shooter I personally like, but that is not the purpose of the army - the knights are the reason to take the list.

The LMI Jls,Sh unit is used like a stronger LI Jls,Sh unit (which the army lacks). Great in rough terrain - which day 2 has aplenty - and can push off opposing LI with ease in rough.

There is sparse LC but it can hold a decent amount of space. The big unit is irregular but provides 18 scouting allowing Mark to gain the advantage at times on cavalry. The LB armed troops add the ability to clear away opposing light cavalry and allow Mark's to be aggressive at times.

The Pavisers are interesting - I am sure they plugged gaps and allowed knights to charge in that area and absorb lots of shooting. They also have sh in another rank allowing them to be combat troops as well. HI makes them tough.

This is certainly a knight army and the support is excellent for getting the knights were they need to be. Nice list Mark.

Todd

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 12th place Frank Gilson Ghaznavid

Frank Gilson wrote:
CinC PA 2 Irr B El P/JLS/B
3 Irr B El P/JLS/B
6E Irr C LC B
6E Irr C LC B
6E Irr C LC B
6E Irr C LC B
6E Irr C LI B,Sh/B
8E Irr D LI B
2E Reg B LI CB,Sh
2E Reg B HC L,B,Sh
2E Reg B HC L,B,Sh
Sub P 3 Irr B El P/JLS/B
4E Reg B LHI LTS,B,Sh
2E Reg B LI CB,Sh
Sub P 3 Irr B El P/JLS/B
4E Reg B LHI LTS,B,Sh
2E Reg B LI CB,Sh


As I mentioned in my AAR, I needed atleast 1 if not 2 units of Irr C LMI JLS,Sh for terrain. Too much LC/LI here.

Frank
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:56 am    Post subject:

Todd Kaeser wrote:


I was very curious about Mark's list and I can see some appeal to it already. Plenty of knights (7 total) and a mix of irreg and reg. Great for dismounting (there are a few pics of this army in the album section and you can see dismounted knights) as they are front rank SHI 2HCW, Sh and back EHI Jls,Sh. Great to dismount to fight and deal with mass shooting.

There is some shooting here as well and 2 units of multi-purpose shooting. Not the number of shooter I personally like, but that is not the purpose of the army - the knights are the reason to take the list.

The LMI Jls,Sh unit is used like a stronger LI Jls,Sh unit (which the army lacks). Great in rough terrain - which day 2 has aplenty - and can push off opposing LI with ease in rough.

There is sparse LC but it can hold a decent amount of space. The big unit is irregular but provides 18 scouting allowing Mark to gain the advantage at times on cavalry. The LB armed troops add the ability to clear away opposing light cavalry and allow Mark's to be aggressive at times.

The Pavisers are interesting - I am sure they plugged gaps and allowed knights to charge in that area and absorb lots of shooting. They also have sh in another rank allowing them to be combat troops as well. HI makes them tough.

This is certainly a knight army and the support is excellent for getting the knights were they need to be. Nice list Mark.

Todd


Thanks for the kind words, Todd. Despite my relatively low finish, I would happily play this list again. In the current climate of pre-set terrain, often abundant terrain, and given army choies others tend to make, I think it's about as good a knight army as there is.

It also had a lot of historical charm. When Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote his novel, "The White Company", he thought that was the work for which he'd be remembered and that Sherlock Holmes was merely something to pay the bills. He was wrong, of course, but "The White Company" is still a fun read, and a nice introduction to the Free Companies period in Europe. The opportunity to play Sir John Hawkwood's White Company is not one to be missed for any Medievalist.

Among other things, I built the army this way to kill Meso-Americans... which I then never faced. The LTS unit is a case in point. You have enough knights to keep your opponent from casually going into skirmish and just fading away, and if the pavissiers can thus get a Meso LMI unit within charge range, they can make quick work of it. Consider 16 figures of Reg B LMI LTS,S,Sh with circulating combatants -- the bane of any mounted knight unit. Assuming even die rolls:

Pavissiers, Bound 1: LTS vs. LMI - LTS@3 + 1 charging. 16@4=64.
Mesos, Bound 1: LTS vs. HI - LTS@2 + 1 charging. 12@3=30.
Mesos recoil disordered. Crucially, the Pavissiers do not follow up.
Pavissiers, Bound 2: LTS vs. LMI - LTS@3 + 1 charging. 16@4=64.
Mesos, Bound 2: LTS vs. HI - LTS@2 + 1 charging, -1 disordered, -2 facing LTS. 12@-1=8.
Mesos rout.

Dismounted knights also do well against Mesos, and regular knights can move up full and then dismount, which makes mounted regular knights at 121 paces - 240 paces distance, who move after foot, a particular challenge. And the LHI longbowmen with 2HCW do well supporting the knights in a follow up bound, or protecting the knights' flank.

The army is also reasonably well balanced to meet a variety of other threats. It has two big weaknesses (no army is perfect):
(1) It doesn't hold a lot of frontage. This was challenging, for example, against Ewan and his 96 LMI archers with abundant LI and some LC.
(2) The army really doesn't have a good answer to elephants. This was challenging, for example, against Frank's Ghaznavids and against Rich Kroupa's Kushan.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:13 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
2E RegA/B SHK L Sh CinC PA
4E Reg D LMI JLS Sh
2E Reg B SHK L Sh
6E Reg A/B LHI/LMI P/THCT Ally P
6E Reg A/B LHI/LMI P/THCT
6E Reg A/B LHI/LMI P/THCT
4E Reg B LI HG
4E Reg D LMI JLS Sh
2E Reg C LC XB
2E Reg C LC XB
2E Reg C LC XB
6E Reg D LMI XB
6E Reg D LMI XB
4E Reg C LHI XB Sh 0.5 THCT
4E Reg C LHI XB Sh 0.5 THCT
4E Reg C LHI XB 0.5 THCT
4E Reg D LMI JLS Sh


Sean has been running Italian Condotta for a long, long time and we've seen many different iterations of this list. I played against him the last 2 NICTs and he changed his list by dropping a unit of Reg SHK and adding 3 units of Reg D LMI Jls,sh (each only 58 points). I know he was thinking about how to fight against Meso armies (and then now were there as Mark stated earlier).

Having only 2 units of knights is tough, but the Swiss make up for a lot and are quite hardy troops.

Lots of shooting (something I love) and regular and LMI - my favorites. Dual purpose with 3 units with 2HCT as well in the front rank. Crossbow is the one major problem - yes it is decent vs Cavalry, especially heavier troops. BUT it struggles vs. foot and elephants.

Sean plays this very well (as he has placed 2nd here). Fun, flexible army. There is some LC to hold the flanks for a short time. Morale could be a problem as breaks could lead to many shakes with the proportion of C and D troops. Certainly an interesting army and one that Sean handles well.

Todd

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:32 pm    Post subject:

Todd Kaeser wrote:
Quote:
2E RegA/B SHK L Sh CinC PA
4E Reg D LMI JLS Sh
2E Reg B SHK L Sh
6E Reg A/B LHI/LMI P/THCT Ally P
6E Reg A/B LHI/LMI P/THCT
6E Reg A/B LHI/LMI P/THCT
4E Reg B LI HG
4E Reg D LMI JLS Sh
2E Reg C LC XB
2E Reg C LC XB
2E Reg C LC XB
6E Reg D LMI XB
6E Reg D LMI XB
4E Reg C LHI XB Sh 0.5 THCT
4E Reg C LHI XB Sh 0.5 THCT
4E Reg C LHI XB 0.5 THCT
4E Reg D LMI JLS Sh


Sean has been running Italian Condotta for a long, long time and we've seen many different iterations of this list. I played against him the last 2 NICTs and he changed his list by dropping a unit of Reg SHK and adding 3 units of Reg D LMI Jls,sh (each only 58 points). I know he was thinking about how to fight against Meso armies (and then now were there as Mark stated earlier).

Having only 2 units of knights is tough, but the Swiss make up for a lot and are quite hardy troops.

Lots of shooting (something I love) and regular and LMI - my favorites. Dual purpose with 3 units with 2HCT as well in the front rank. Crossbow is the one major problem - yes it is decent vs Cavalry, especially heavier troops. BUT it struggles vs. foot and elephants.

Sean plays this very well (as he has placed 2nd here). Fun, flexible army. There is some LC to hold the flanks for a short time. Morale could be a problem as breaks could lead to many shakes with the proportion of C and D troops. Certainly an interesting army and one that Sean handles well.

Todd


I agree with pretty much all of Todd's comments here.

Here's another way to think about Sean's list: If you're going to play Swiss, what's the best list for using the Swiss?

As is often the case in Warrior, an interesting troop type typically lacks enough supporting troops of the right kind on its home list. So don't play the Swiss list. Also, don't play any of the German lists. So that leaves Italian Condotta and Early Burgundian.

I think Early Burgundian is a strong list with or without the Swiss, and certainly a playable way to deploy the Swiss. But I think Sean's take on Italian Condotta might arguably be better. A few things to note:

* Sean gets close -- close enough -- to the volume and density of shooting that Early Burgundian provides.
* This list has better rough terrain troops by far than the Early Burgundian, who really just have the longbowmen who must also serve as line/frontage-holding troops.
* The 2HCT guys here are better hand to hand troops than the longbowmen, giving this list 5 solid shock units (the 2 knights and the 3 Swiss) and 3 solid follow-up units via the 2HCT.

I'm less concerned about CB being an inferior missile weapon. It gets close range at 120p, meaning elephants and loose order foot have to take a close range prep shot to get to grips with the CB guys. That mitigates the lesser factor a lot.

Overall a solid list that adapts well to our current trends in army list selection and pre-set terrain. I'd happily play this against Mesos, pike-elephant armies, or light cav heavy armies. It's greatest weakness is against other knight armies that have solid shooting.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:57 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
CinC PA 2 Irr B El P/JLS/B
3 Irr B El P/JLS/B
6E Irr C LC B
6E Irr C LC B
6E Irr C LC B
6E Irr C LC B
6E Irr C LI B,Sh/B
8E Irr D LI B
2E Reg B LI CB,Sh
2E Reg B HC L,B,Sh
2E Reg B HC L,B,Sh
Sub P 3 Irr B El P/JLS/B
4E Reg B LHI LTS,B,Sh
2E Reg B LI CB,Sh
Sub P 3 Irr B El P/JLS/B
4E Reg B LHI LTS,B,Sh
2E Reg B LI CB,Sh


Franks's Ghaznavid

Ghaznavid used to be a favorite of mine back in 15mm (sooooo long ago) and back in those days there was no Daylami to bridge the gap between the elephants and the cavalry. Best elephants in the game but there were often unsupported except by LI B or CB troops. The cavalry is not elephant proof and that was a huge challenge. The Daylami are game changers by far making it one of the toughest lists to play against in the game.

That being said every army has its foil and terrain is one of them. I would agree with Frank's assessment that there needs to be more rough terrain units - irreg C LMI Jls,Sh is a such a mediocre choice but the only choice the army has. If a unit is forced to "hold the line" on a terrain thin board it could easily become a target (I would try to kill them as they are the weakest unit) and hope to get a shake/break because of them. The LC is certainly not the best as it seems that the only LC used fights rank and a half and the Ghaz ones are there to hold/delay/shoot. However, getting less means less scouting and the advantage of setting up second for Ghaznavid is optimal to place your elephants properly.

I love the Reg B HC L,B,Sh but can't follow up on the elephants without being disordered.

The Daylami are what makes the army great and not just good. However, their cost takes away from other unit choices. The elephants have to get into combat in my opinion - as "B" and with pike they should be charging each and every battle - often multiple times. They are tougher than one thinks - except vs. LTS,B,Sh type troops or some barbarians/varangians - Jake's list might give me some pause here. If they're not fighting then you're not winning any games IMO. Send them in early and often and hope to have that good roll that wins the combat/game - as generals and "B" it saves a down 2 to even and that is enormous AND with pike the enemy is down 1 as well. Ghaznavid goes as the elephants go - the Daylami allow the elephants to get into combat with less fatigue and are excellent to hold and even win on the flanks of the elephant combat. If they get shot for 2 cpf then waiver and go in anyway.

Really nice list with the best elephants in the game.

Todd

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:20 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
1 CnC IrB HK L SH PA/1xIrB HK L SH 170 0
2 Sub IrB HK L SH P/1xIrB HK L SH 110 0
3 Ally (Hu) IrB SHK L SH P/1xIrB SHK L SH 170 1
4 Ally(Ta) RgB HC B L SH P/1xRgC MC B L 135 2
5 2xIrA HK L SH 97 0
6 2xIrC LI B 1/2 SH 35 1
7 10xIr LMI C B 1/2 SH 105 0
8 3xIrC LMI 2HCW/5xIrD LMI JLS/4xIrD LMI B 70 0
9 3xIrC LC B JS SH/3xIrC LC B JLS/1xIrC LC B 105 21
10 3xIrC LC B JS SH/3xIrC LC B JLS/1xIrC LC B 105 21
11 (Hu) 2xIrB SHK L SH 133 0
12 (Hu) 4xIrC LC B 57 12
13 (Ta) 2xHC B L SH/2xMC B L 130 4
14 (Ta) 1xRgC HC B L SH/1xRgC HC B L 76 2
15 (Ta) 1xRgC LC B JLS SH/1xLC RgC B JLS 46 6
16 (Ta) 1xRgC LC B JLS SH/1xLC RgC B JLS 46 6
17 6xElements width ditch 10


Moldavian/Wallachian has been discussed at length and Scott has played them off and on for years and he is very good with them. I think that Scott played with the list this time and has some very out of the box planning on this rendition.

2 units of loose, irregular foot - one with bow and one designed for fighting using barbarian rules. I personally don't like them here (despite their effectiveness against me). The ditch certainly helps. I think using them is a way to reduce frontage in an army that doesn't need its frontage reduced - it thrives in open space with great LC, including Mongols. Mongols is what makes the army so flexible in the ability to dismount element for element as HI/MI LTS,B,Sh in front of elephants/cavalry/some foot- most knight armies don't have that flexibility.

The HK is augmented by the Irreg A option - albeit making it tricky to use. There are 3 units of SHK as well - able to absorb more shooting and combat and a lance is a lance is a lance - great pop.

Certainly a worry is the 2nd day of the NICT for terrain and that may be the reason for the loose foot.

Different look on an army that has been played a lot and Scott plays them well.

Todd

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 6th place Scott McDonald Wallachian/Moldavian

Frank Gilson wrote:
1 CnC IrB HK L SH PA/1xIrB HK L SH 170 0
2 Sub IrB HK L SH P/1xIrB HK L SH 110 0
3 Ally (Hu) IrB SHK L SH P/1xIrB SHK L SH 170 1
4 Ally(Ta) RgB HC B L SH P/1xRgC MC B L 135 2
5 2xIrA HK L SH 97 0
6 2xIrC LI B 1/2 SH 35 1
7 10xIr LMI C B 1/2 SH 105 0
8 3xIrC LMI 2HCW/5xIrD LMI JLS/4xIrD LMI B 70 0
9 3xIrC LC B JS SH/3xIrC LC B JLS/1xIrC LC B 105 21
10 3xIrC LC B JS SH/3xIrC LC B JLS/1xIrC LC B 105 21
11 (Hu) 2xIrB SHK L SH 133 0
12 (Hu) 4xIrC LC B 57 12
13 (Ta) 2xHC B L SH/2xMC B L 130 4
14 (Ta) 1xRgC HC B L SH/1xRgC HC B L 76 2
15 (Ta) 1xRgC LC B JLS SH/1xLC RgC B JLS 46 6
16 (Ta) 1xRgC LC B JLS SH/1xLC RgC B JLS 46 6
17 6xElements width ditch 10 0
18
19
20
21
Totals 1600 76


I love the Wallachians; truly one of the "A" lists out there among knight armies. But I hate this version of it.

If you run Wallachians, you have to accept one basic fact: you are never going to fight effectively in any kind of terrain. That's daunting given the abundance of Saturday terrain, but you have so many other advantages you can work around it.

Let's start with as good a contingent of light troops as you'll find anywhere: shielded LI with bow, and LC that can have a mix of JLS, B, Sh and can be a mix of regular and irregular, and fights rank and a half. And an abundance of these troop types.

So you know you can cover the whole table frontage, and deploy and immediate and pressing threat to your opponent's light troops. It's certainly possible to win the game in the first couple of bounds just with that advantage right there.

Scott takes an unusual approach here to buying the light cav, for the core opting for 18 figure units in 3 ranks. This makes them more resistant to shooting, and assures they put out two full ranks of shooting even in skirmish. I would have taken smaller units and squeezed out one more of them, but that's mostly a stylistic difference.

Scott does not take nearly enough LI here. These guys are cheap frontage fillers that are easy for the Wallachians to charge through and hard for your opponent to displace, presenting a particular nuisance to enemy elephants and cavalry.

The two LMI units are a mistake. If you want dense shooting you need 4 to a stand; irregular LMI doesn't cut it, particularly with CB. Those guys are only marginally more effective than LI at shooting, and much more brittle since when they rout everyone tests. And the h-t-h unit is just not worth it. It is easily made uneasy, it marches and moves slowly, and thus the odds of successfully lining it up against the right opponent are low. Yes, it holds terrain adequately, but so will a small LI unit at a fractioon of the cost. No, if I'm up against Wallachians and see these two units on the table, I have my battle plan: kill these two (not hard), and see what the resulting waver tests yield.

Finally, having spent extravagantly in other areas, Scott doesn't have enough points left to make his Tatar Ally a 12 figure unit. This is actually crucial. This army doesn't have an abundance of dense shooting, but if you have two 12 figure Tatar loose order cav units, then you have a speedy, highly maneuverable way of putting 32 figures of LTS,B,Sh exactly where you need them, such as against enemy elephants.

So great list overall, but this is not a great rendition of it.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 15th place Bill Low Late Mithridatic

Frank Gilson wrote:
2 **Reg B HC JLS,Sh  Reg CinC + Pontic Cav
2 *Reg B HC JLS,Sh  Reg SubGen + Pontic Cav
2 Irr B HC L,B,Sh Rhoxolani Nobles
2 Irr B HC L,B,Sh Rhoxolani Nobles
2 Irr B HC L,B,Sh Rhoxolani Nobles

4 Irr C LC JLS,B,Sh/JLS,B Scythians
4 Irr C LC JLS,B,Sh/JLS,B Scythians
4 Irr C LC JLS,B,Sh/JLS,B Scythians

4 Reg C LMI LTS,JLS,Sh Thureophoroi
4 Reg C LMI LTS,JLS,Sh Thureophoroi
4 Reg C LMI LTS,JLS,Sh Thureophoroi
4 Reg C LMI LTS,JLS,Sh Thureophoroi
4 Reg C MI HTW,Sh Imitation Legionaries

4 Irr A LMI 2HCW,Sh/JLS,Sh Bastarnae Infantry
4 Irr A LMI 2HCW,Sh/JLS,Sh Bastarnae Infantry
6 Irr C LMI 2HCW,JLS/JLS,Sh Thracians

6 Irr C LI JLS,Sh         Bosporan Javelinmen
6 Irr C LI B,Sh/B Bosporan Archers
6 Irr C LI B,Sh/B Bosporan Archers


Can you tell that Bill plays a lot of Meso Americans? This is an Alexandrian era list done in the style of a Meso American army. Kudos to Bill for creativity, and it has some virtues, but some major weaknesses too.

First, against another infantry army this army would pose a real problem. The Thureophoroi can fight the things they are capable of beating, and fade away from the things they cannot. They're also very tough in the brush. For infantry the Thureophoroi don't want to face there's the combination of imitation legionaries and Thracians. The Thracians are also an excellent terrain troop, able to operate effectively in terrain where the Thureophoroi cannot.

Finally, unlike a Meso American army, there's decent mounted here, if you restrict it to a supporting role. The Roxalani assure that enemy infantry cannot just casually skirmish away, and also provide some backing to the LI so that your opponent has to be careful about using his mounted to try and take out the LI. The LC isn't numerous, but it doesn't have to be. There's enough here to operate aggressively on one wing, particularly in tandem with the LI. Given that the LC are Skythians who fight rank and a half, these guys can be effective.

And remember, the light troops here don't have to be as numerous because they don't have to screen the entire army. The Thureophoroi are perfectly happy to stand unprotected on the front line against an opponent army that is primarily infantry.

So what's the downside?

Enemy cavalry armies with good shock mounted. Bill's army would have a very tough time against either Wallachians or Italian Condotta. Those armies have equal or greater light troops that put the Mithradatic in a reactive, counter-punching mode, and those armies also have knights that will happily walk right up to the Thureophoroi and, through a combination of mounted and dismounted attacks, just kill them outright.

No army is perfect. Being excellent at handling terrain makes sense given current trends. Being potent against enemy infantry, and not particularly afraid of enemy elephants also makes sense. But that last several years have seen an abundance of mounted armies as well, particularly knight armies, and this configuration of Mithradatic will not fare well in those matchups.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:35 am    Post subject: Re: 7th place Ewan McNay Romano-British

Frank Gilson wrote:
2 CinC Reg A/B HC JLS, Sh 150
2 IrrA EHC/HC L, Sh 36
2 Reg D HC JLS, Sh 27
2 Reg D LC JLS, Sh/B 14
2 Reg D LC B 10
2 Reg D LC B 10

2 Reg B HC L, B, Sh 39
2 Reg B HC L, B, Sh 39

4 Reg B LMI JLS, S, Sh/JLS, Sh 24
4 Reg B LMI JLS, S, Sh/JLS, Sh 24
4 Reg B LMI JLS, Sh 20


6 Reg D LMI B, Sh/B 1E C 12
6 Reg D LMI B, Sh/B 1E C 12
6 Reg D LMI B, Sh/B 1E C 12
6 Reg D LMI B, Sh/B 12

4 Ally Gen + IrrB/C  H/MI JLS, Sh, 3E HTW 28
4 IrrB/C MI JLS, Sh, 3E HTW 20

2 Reg D LI JLS, Sh 6
6 Reg D LI S, Sh 6
12 Irr C/D LI B, Sh 4
2 Reg D LI JLS, Sh 6


Arhtur! King of the Britons!

I have all the lead for this list, and I've played it in non-tournament settings a number of times, usually stumping my opponents for what to do. It's a bit of a conundrum, and Ewan has put it together quite well.

First off, the skirmisher line is excellent. Shielded LI, a smattering of servicable LC, and most importantly 96 figures of LMI bowmen. Collectively that should be enough to push back most other skirmisher lines and establish an attack posture.

This is important, because the army has limited but potent shock threats, and they have to be delivered in the right place at the right time.

You have three units of lancers, including one of Irr A front rank EHC. These lancers will only be effective against targets that have been softened up, and are at least tired or disordered, or preferably both. That's the job of the 96 LMI bowmen, who are often up to the task. So enemy armies that rely on shock cavalry beware. There's a lot of highly maneuverable shooting in this army that you'll have to solve for in order to bring your shock troops to bear, and that's not an easy problem to solve.

The best way for a mounted army to meet this threat would actually be head on. If you have 8 units of lancers and some light troops that can soak off prep shooting, then line up two waves against each of the 4 LMI bow units and make them pass two wavers (one for each wave) for being charged by mounted. They're Ds, and so probably most of them don't, and you're better than his remaining mounted, and thus should be able to exploit the resulting opportunities. I had 7 such units and plenty of lights, but lacked the courage of my convictions. So Ewan and I fought to a tough winning draw for him.

If you're an elephant army facing Arthur, you have my condolences. There are enough lights here to avoid elephants where Arthur wants to, and enough shooting and anit-elephant power to make a fight of it somewhere. Those 96 LMI bowmen are a huge problem for elephants, and any elephants made tired and/or disordered by shooting are going to be terribly vulnerable to the close order foot armed with HTW and JLS.

Pike armies have an even harder time. They can't chase down any of the skirmishing troops, and the barbarian HTW,JLS guys are happy to engage pikemen with follow on support from the likes of Irr A EHC.

Oh, and those regular LMI JLS,Sh guys? By list rule they fight in 2 ranks, all the time. Some of the best terrain troops in the game, and in a terrain rich environment these guys will see that terrain as a highway into your backfield. Anyone remember the Alexandrian Theme some years ago where Ewan maxed out on LHI, took 4 brush and/or hill picks, and carved up the field? This army plays in a similar manner.

So not an A list army by any means, mainly due to that lack of any true shock troops other than the HTW,JLS guys who can't fight shock mounted. But a potent army nonetheless, and one with versatility that can be incredibly frustrating to deal with.
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Frank Gilson
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 7th place Ewan McNay Romano-British

Mark Stone wrote:
Frank Gilson wrote:
2 CinC Reg A/B HC JLS, Sh 150
2 IrrA EHC/HC L, Sh 36
2 Reg D HC JLS, Sh 27
2 Reg D LC JLS, Sh/B 14
2 Reg D LC B 10
2 Reg D LC B 10

2 Reg B HC L, B, Sh 39
2 Reg B HC L, B, Sh 39

4 Reg B LMI JLS, S, Sh/JLS, Sh 24
4 Reg B LMI JLS, S, Sh/JLS, Sh 24
4 Reg B LMI JLS, Sh 20


6 Reg D LMI B, Sh/B 1E C 12
6 Reg D LMI B, Sh/B 1E C 12
6 Reg D LMI B, Sh/B 1E C 12
6 Reg D LMI B, Sh/B 12

4 Ally Gen + IrrB/C  H/MI JLS, Sh, 3E HTW 28
4 IrrB/C MI JLS, Sh, 3E HTW 20

2 Reg D LI JLS, Sh 6
6 Reg D LI S, Sh 6
12 Irr C/D LI B, Sh 4
2 Reg D LI JLS, Sh 6


Arhtur! King of the Britons!

I have all the lead for this list, and I've played it in non-tournament settings a number of times, usually stumping my opponents for what to do. It's a bit of a conundrum, and Ewan has put it together quite well.

First off, the skirmisher line is excellent. Shielded LI, a smattering of servicable LC, and most importantly 96 figures of LMI bowmen. Collectively that should be enough to push back most other skirmisher lines and establish an attack posture.

This is important, because the army has limited but potent shock threats, and they have to be delivered in the right place at the right time.

You have three units of lancers, including one of Irr A front rank EHC. These lancers will only be effective against targets that have been softened up, and are at least tired or disordered, or preferably both. That's the job of the 96 LMI bowmen, who are often up to the task. So enemy armies that rely on shock cavalry beware. There's a lot of highly maneuverable shooting in this army that you'll have to solve for in order to bring your shock troops to bear, and that's not an easy problem to solve.

The best way for a mounted army to meet this threat would actually be head on. If you have 8 units of lancers and some light troops that can soak off prep shooting, then line up two waves against each of the 4 LMI bow units and make them pass two wavers (one for each wave) for being charged by mounted. They're Ds, and so probably most of them don't, and you're better than his remaining mounted, and thus should be able to exploit the resulting opportunities. I had 7 such units and plenty of lights, but lacked the courage of my convictions. So Ewan and I fought to a tough winning draw for him.

If you're an elephant army facing Arthur, you have my condolences. There are enough lights here to avoid elephants where Arthur wants to, and enough shooting and anit-elephant power to make a fight of it somewhere. Those 96 LMI bowmen are a huge problem for elephants, and any elephants made tired and/or disordered by shooting are going to be terribly vulnerable to the close order foot armed with HTW and JLS.

Pike armies have an even harder time. They can't chase down any of the skirmishing troops, and the barbarian HTW,JLS guys are happy to engage pikemen with follow on support from the likes of Irr A EHC.

Oh, and those regular LMI JLS,Sh guys? By list rule they fight in 2 ranks, all the time. Some of the best terrain troops in the game, and in a terrain rich environment these guys will see that terrain as a highway into your backfield. Anyone remember the Alexandrian Theme some years ago where Ewan maxed out on LHI, took 4 brush and/or hill picks, and carved up the field? This army plays in a similar manner.

So not an A list army by any means, mainly due to that lack of any true shock troops other than the HTW,JLS guys who can't fight shock mounted. But a potent army nonetheless, and one with versatility that can be incredibly frustrating to deal with.


General agreement here...including the fact that at long range the Britons can put out enough shooting to, with a +2 or +3 die result, really put the hurt on you. Make sure you are splitting their shooting!
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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject:

I do find it amusing that both Mark and Frank love the idea of regular shooting combined with the ability to fight in combat, be maneuverable in and out of terrain, and have above average morale with a few shock units to make the schwerpunkt...... yet have a great dislike of playing MesoAmerican armies Rolling Eyes Wink Laughing

Todd

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Frank Gilson
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject:

Todd Kaeser wrote:
I do find it amusing that both Mark and Frank love the idea of regular shooting combined with the ability to fight in combat, be maneuverable in and out of terrain, and have above average morale with a few shock units to make the schwerpunkt...... yet have a great dislike of playing MesoAmerican armies Rolling Eyes Wink Laughing

Todd


I played Spanish Conquistador with Bill! See? And I won an Open with Post-Later-Imperial-After-The-Fall-Last-Incas.
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