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Historicon AAR- ride of the Black Prince

 
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theblackprince
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:56 pm    Post subject: Historicon AAR- ride of the Black Prince

After much back and forth, I decided to play the early period of 100YW English (notionally the army of the Black Prince at Poitiers). I own all the lead for army and I have played longbowmen and knights a good amount over time. It lacks any LC so is likely to be out-scouted most of the time, but with 360 paces of set-up, it should still be ok. I configure it with seven knight units and a 4E Brigand closer order unit with PA to fight elephants and counter dense shooting. This means I “only” have 26E of Reg C LMI longbowmen, probably a bit less than expected. The knights are optimized to dismount also, a useful thing given the increasing amounts of Reg B LMI, LTS, missile weapon I expect to fight.

Game 1 Bill Low, Tepanec

In the 1st game I drew Bill Low and his Tepanecs (Meso-Americans). I’ve played Bill before with this army and my list is pretty well optimized for this matchup. Bill is concerned about his ability to force contact with his entirely foot army so he allows a flank charge on one of his A moral units to entice me in on the 1st bound. This leads to a big fight early in the center; I rout several costly LMI units but then have the weather the counterpunch storm of his 4 2E IrrA priest units. This results in one exhausted/destroyed knight unit but I am able to pull other stuff away and kill some of the now shield-less priests. I dismount several other knight units to take on his LTS, S leading to some more points. I lose one LB unit on the extreme flank but it works out 5-1 for me overall.

Game 2 Ewan McNay, Early Palaiologan Byzantine

A finely tuned game between two similar armies- both have 7+ cavalry/knight units and lots of 4 to a stand shooting. The game develops something like a chess match with my knights units necessarily dispersed to cover my LB in the open. In retrospect, I probably deployed about a foot further to the left than I should have, a denser frontage would have been to my advantage as his LC would have been harder to employ. Ewan uses his knights used aggressively from the outset, maximizing his out scouting advantage to keep me on my heels. In the ebb and flow, I lost 3 LB units caught/shaken, but routed his Varangians with my irregular Gascon knights and a Gazmouli LMI, JLS, B unit with shooting. We were both unable to mass all knights as we countered each other. In retrospect, it was a mistake on my part to try to cover the entire frontage, it would have been better to mass, which would have maximized the advantage of my SHK and reduced the use of his LC. Dice probably were about even overall, leading to a 2-2 draw.
At the end of the 1st day, I have 7 total points, somewhere in the upper middle of the pack. Not out of it by any stretch, but I’ll need big wins Saturday and some help.

Game 3 Mark Stone, Later Palaiologan Byzantine

More Byzantine await on Saturday, although this list is more straightforward with three units of IrrA French SHK.My basic idea was to again get Varangians in the open and force his IrrA knights to charge something he would not catch at least once to tire him out and force him to not recall. I turned his right flank and refused my right flank to better cover the frontage. Some LB shook his SubG with a good long range shot and I shook an evading Gazmouli unit in skirmish with a charge. The game ended when my LB were able to support my knights against one of his IrrA French units and I broke through a Psiloi LMI unit into a 2nd French K unit, routing it and forcing that command into retreat. 5-1 for the English.

Game 4, Greg Hauser, Timurid

With my now 12 points, I am able to draw the leader, Greg Hauser with a perfect 15 points at the helm of Timurids. Timurids, to me, is one of those armies that has a numerous very good troops but sometimes tempts people into buying a little bit of everything, which I think works not so well. In the event, Greg does have a wide mix of elephants, SHC, regular LHI, and even some artillery.

Another tight maneuver game, I have more guys than my opponent does (for a change), so I work to turn his right flank with the help of favorable terrain. My Brigans deter one of his 2 elephant units in the center. On my right, I am barely able to get one his expensive LHI foot units with my knights before he gets safely in the marsh. On the left, I am able to get 2 4E LB units firing onto one 2E elephant unit, which eventually breaks it. He does a good job with his Mongol HC/LC unit forestalling other knight attacks of mine and those two units add up to the 3-0 win for me.

Game 5, Rob Turnbull, Alexandrian Imperial

With one game to go, I have nosed into the lead with 15 total points on strength of schedule, although Greg still has 15 points and so does defending champion Robert Turnbull. Ewan lurks just behind with 14. It’s clear that I will need a substantial victory in my last game to be sure.

I face off against Rob and his Alexandrian Imperial. One used to see these “pike/elephant” armies frequently in the 90’s, but they have faded in popularity some. Alex Imperial has just about as many specific “list rules” as possible, which benefit seemingly half his units in one way or another. However, these lists have little shooting and a bit of a hard time coordinating all the different types of units he has (pikes, elephants, HC, peltasts, and LC units). Only 2 elephant units again makes it possible for me to simply avoid them without too much trouble, although the constricted terrain helps in this regard. My shooting dice are quite good overall early, yielding a disordered pike block away from his elephants. I look to exploit this with my knights, which results in a large melee. With some misgivings, Rob sends additional units to assist the disordered pike. My knights rout the pike and a companion unit, but get hit in the flank by peltasts and a 2nd pike unit, albeit with a good amount of my LB support shooting him. The key thing turns out to be the fact he fails some waivers for the routers, which in conjunction with the massed support shooting saves my knight units from routing for enough time for his command to go into retreat. I get the 5-1 victory I need.

Ewan does end up 2nd with 19 points total, just behind my 20. A tough, taut tournament from beginning to end, with multiple people in the running throughout. I do not have as much chance to play these days because of my job, which makes the victory more meaningful. Thanks as always to Scott and Rich for their work in putting the entire thing together.
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scott holder
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:20 pm    Post subject:

I *think* the difference between first place and second place was *one* die roll: Ewan's Varangians fell thru the ice after routing Rob's Hypaspists. Then Ewan's unit fighting the adjacent elephants tanked it's waver test.

I'm going to run the numbers tonight and see if that would have changed the outcome.

Glad you came and looking forward to seeing you again in 2020.

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lilroblis
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:11 pm    Post subject: Nationals

Dave good write up thanks - for my part I dispersed my troops, and frankly do not like the way I ran the list this year, as the small pike blocks and elephant units are very are easy to shoot up/rout and in my opinion one of the strengths of previous builds has been the ability to build scrums where the good troops I have in abundance beat the good troops my opponents have in smaller numbers.
Your dice were also good, but you out deployed me, and as I keep learning close order foot is where it is - it is hard to redeploy especially when used in small units
Thanks again for a good game
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Ed Kollmer
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:03 am    Post subject:

Nice write up. Enjoyed it a lot. Keep up the good work.
truly the Black Prince rides again. Always liked the Black Prince.
Anyone named Edward is great in my book.
I remember when he left for France. I wanted to go with him. He patted me on the shoulder an said, " You are too young. but you are a rash fellow"
I told ToddK, Star of the Northeast, and DanW , Hammer of the Northeast, of the story and they labeled me " Ed the Rash".
Again very good write up.
EK
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jhill4913@comcast.net
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:57 pm    Post subject:

A very good battle report Dave. I can't wait to see your winning list published here, as I've been trying to win with HYWE for almost two years in Florida, with little success.
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Frank Gilson
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:55 pm    Post subject:

jhill4913@comcast.net wrote:
A very good battle report Dave. I can't wait to see your winning list published here, as I've been trying to win with HYWE for almost two years in Florida, with little success.


We used to play the Late version for stakes, 2HCW, and the LC unit for some scouting...but getting to 18 scouting was just not enough, and all the EHK had to be SHK...making things a touch too expensive.

So, we looked at the Early period where the Irr knights can be back rank EHK.

Roughly:
CinC PA Reg B SHK/HK L,Sh/L
Sub similar
couple of 2E Irr B SHK/EHK L,Sh units
one Brigan unit 4E Irr C HI/MI 2HCT,Pa/JLS as a utility unit, must carefully deploy to actually be useful
Bunch of Reg C LMI LB,Sh in 4E units, except one 2E unit (which may be LHI).
Couple of LI units, including Irr C at least front rank shields.
Option to exchange troops for a Ditch or two but I don't think Dave actually did.
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scott holder
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:48 pm    Post subject:

I'll be sending Todd all the lists for him to post in the NICT List Lore section.
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Ewan McNay
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:51 pm    Post subject:

Scott - was it indeed that last die roll of the tournament? Pah Smile. The lake wins!
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