Warrior Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules
A Four Horsemen Enterprises Rules Set
 
  FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups AlbumAlbum   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Wallachian/Moldavian

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules Forum Index -> Tactics
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ben M
Recruit
Recruit


Joined: 02 Sep 2020
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:32 pm    Post subject: Wallachian/Moldavian

Hey folks,

Was wondering if I could spark up a conversation here about Moldavian. Specifically, the use of both Crimean Tartar and Hungarian allies and why y'all think both/one/none should be used. Also posting a sample list I made, would love to get comments on mine/see yours! Thx
Ben

Elm Name Cost
2 CinC w/ PA Ir B HK L, Sh 170
2 Ir B HK L, Sh 91
2 Ir A HK L, Sh 97
2 Ir A HK L, Sh 97
7 Ir C LC JLS, B, Sh/JLS, B/B 105
6 Ir C LC JLS, B, Sh/JLS, B 97
4 Ir C LC JLS, B, Sh/JLS, B 73
6 Ir C LI B, Sh/B 55
6 Ir C LI B, Sh/B 55

4 Ally w/ P Rg C(1B) HC/MC L, B, Sh/L, B 195
4 Rg C HC/MC L, B, Sh/L, B 142
4 Rg C LC JLS, B, Sh/JLS, B 82

2 Ally w/ P Ir B SHK/EHK L, Sh 161
2 Ir B SHK/EHK L, Sh 124
4 Ir C LC B 57
should be 1601 w/ 89 scouting
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
lilroblis
Legionary
Legionary


Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 567
Location: Cleveland Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:25 pm    Post subject: Lists

Ben
I like heavier than HK - but the tartars IMHO should be 2 element units - those work great
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Frank Gilson
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1553
Location: Orange County California

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:17 pm    Post subject:

Your list is effectively 'the way' the list has been run, generally speaking.

Why?

That's the version with the best troops...the core supplemented by some SHK (the Hungarians are better than the Polish for that) and some Mongols (who generally operate dismounted for shooting/hth).

Some folks take some Bombards sometimes...but the 'other stuff' on the list isn't great (Irr C LMI?)

It's a list that basically writes itself.

Yes, 2E Reg LC units would be great...but...those are much more vulnerable and you'd have to take that Mongol command to 5 units somehow.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
lilroblis
Legionary
Legionary


Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 567
Location: Cleveland Ohio

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:28 pm    Post subject: Wallachian/Moldavian

So reread your list - and its a lot better than my first read said - I cannot read Franks post, so am responding as if it does not exist- my apologies.
Thetwo units of SHK make up for that deficiency - you have really good irregular light cavalry - not having the list in front of me I would look at losing a HK unit and getting a total of 4 2 element Tartar Light cavalry units - for board coverage - or your 4 element light cav unit - but you may not be able to get that much Tartar cavalry - otherwise I like the list a lot more on reread than I did on first take
So just looked at list 4 units of REg B LC, and make your medium Heavies reg B as well - take out the 4 element light cav and a HK unit if you must - and this army rocks - great list in that configuration IMHO (not bad as you have it)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Mark Stone
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 2102
Location: Buckley, WA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:33 pm    Post subject:

You need SHK. You need something that just routs lancers up to EHC at contact, and only SHK will do that. That's the threat you need to dominate the mounted game. I combination with fully armed LC that can charge impetuously and fight a rank a half, that gives you a ferocious mounted threat.

The SHK are also valuable as dismounts when facing pikes and Meso Americans. Granted, dismounted HK as Irr A EHI are pretty dangerous to pikes as well, but they won't fare well against circulating combatants because they must charge impetuously and thus must follow up when they win at first contact.

You need two units of loose order Mongols so that you have something to fight elephants with. Dismounted, these provide 32 figures of dense shooting, which is enough to directly challenge elephants at one key place on the battlefield. They work well in tandem with dismounted HK against elephants. Yes, the elephants get a plus against EHI compared to HI/MI, but elephants don't want to face the prospect of an Irr A up roll, and if these EHI operate near dismounted Mongols then there's also the prospect of (a) shooting the elephants to halted, or (b) shooting the elephants enough to be tired at contact, or (c) shooting the elephants to disorder. Any of these outcomes shifts the balance substantially in the favor of the EHI.

You need the Mongol LC in 2 element units because they have high value as threatened flank charges (move full, face 90 degrees). Fighting a rank and a half and with a bit of support shooting on the way in, they are a threat to all but the largest of foot units (32 figures+).

This is a cadillac list. Chris DAmour and I have won the team tourney with it, and Dave Stier has won the NICT with it. The army has no ability to fight in bad terrain, but no army is perfect, and in all other respects it is a balanced army with a multitude of potent threats.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   MSN Messenger
lilroblis
Legionary
Legionary


Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 567
Location: Cleveland Ohio

PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:29 pm    Post subject: Wallachian/Moldavian

I agree mark - the small LC are space eaters - i run a different list taht is in many ways similar to this - will be playing Greg with it on Roll 20 on Tuesday night - the light cavalry is not as good - but it has lots of "good" loose troops (I should say high Utility)- I like the IRR A HK as being much cheaper than SHK and as good for what you want - if they roll up they beat anything (used carefully) - if they roll down it does not matter
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Todd Kaeser
Centurion
Centurion


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1211
Location: Foxborough, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:28 pm    Post subject:

One of the great lists to use - NICT top 10 list IMO

Here is my take on it personally. Just about same core as Ben has but I had some extra points for more LC

Tartar ally command is 5 units and all 2E to get around flanks etc.....

Hungarians to get the SHK/EHK for some added weight - and used some more points on the LC to make it 7E - tougher unit.

Obviously great on day 1 in NICT, but a struggle on day 2 with terrain.

Still a great list

2 CinC w/ PA Ir B HK L, Sh 170
2 Ir B HK L, Sh 91
2 Ir A HK L, Sh 97
2 Ir A HK L, Sh 97
7 Ir C LC JLS, B, Sh/JLS, B/B 105
7 Ir C LC JLS, B, Sh/JLS, B/B 105
6 Ir C LC JLS, B, Sh/JLS, B 97
6 Ir C LI B, Sh/B 55
6 Ir C LI B, Sh/B 55

Hungarian Ally 2E Ir B SHK/EHK L,Sh P 161
2E Knights Ir B SHK/EHK L,Sh 124
7E Hungarian Cav Ir C LC B 81

Tartar Ally 2E Reg B HC L,B,Sh P 150
2E Reg B HC L,B,Sh 88
2E Reg C LC B 1/2 Jls,Sh 42
2E Reg C LC B 1/2 Jls,Sh 42
2E Reg C LC B 1/2 Jls,Sh 42

1602
109 scouting

_________________
Nolite te Bastardes Carborundorum
"Don't let the Bastards Grind You Down"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
Frank Gilson
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1553
Location: Orange County California

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:05 pm    Post subject:

Generally speaking, the purpose of the Tartar command is not to get around flanks, which rarely works these days, especially as you note on Day 2.

Rather, it's to have two units of 4E HC in order to dismount as an anti-elephant threat...which is also useful against Meso-American armies, and some other cases.

With only a couple of 2E HC units...you can't fulfill those functions, and have what is arguably a weaker army.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Todd Kaeser
Centurion
Centurion


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1211
Location: Foxborough, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:26 pm    Post subject:

Fair enough Frank

Always good to make lists though

Todd

_________________
Nolite te Bastardes Carborundorum
"Don't let the Bastards Grind You Down"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
Todd Kaeser
Centurion
Centurion


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1211
Location: Foxborough, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:40 pm    Post subject:

Wallachian
1602 (95 scouting)

CinC 2E Ir B HK L,Sh PA 170
2E Boyars Ir B HK L,Sh 91
2E Boyars Ir A HK L,Sh 97
2E Boyars Ir A HK L,Sh 97

6E Viteji Ir C LC Jls,B,Sh/Jls,B/B 97
6E Viteji Ir C LC Jls,B,Sh/Jls,B/B 97
6E Viteji Ir C LC Jls,B,Sh/Jls,B 97

6E Romanian Archers Ir C LI B ½ Sh 55
6E Romanian Archers Ir C LI B ½ Sh 55


Hungarian Ally 2E Ir B SHK/EHK L,Sh P 161
2E Knights Ir B SHK/EHK L,Sh 124
7E Hungarian Cav Ir C LC B 81


Tartar Ally 4E Reg B HC/MC L,B ½ Sh P 204
4E Tartar Cav Reg C HC/MC L,B ½ Sh 130
2E Tartar Lights Reg B LC B ½ Jls,Sh 46


unfortunately, only 1/2 of Tartars can be C - and points and such

T

_________________
Nolite te Bastardes Carborundorum
"Don't let the Bastards Grind You Down"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
Frank Gilson
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1553
Location: Orange County California

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 8:09 pm    Post subject:

Solid, but as you say, Day 2 NCT terrain has caused this list to fall out of favor...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules Forum Index -> Tactics All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group