Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 7/10/2003 9:27:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Harlan.D.Garrett@... writes:

> What Jon and Greg actually agree on something, what next?
> >>

Me and Chris....lol

[Chris Damour]

We both agree that the coffee stain looks really good on your
groundcloth...

--
Christopher Damour

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 JonCleaves@... wrote:

> In a message dated 7/10/2003 9:27:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Harlan.D.Garrett@... writes:
>
> > What Jon and Greg actually agree on something, what next?
> > >>
>
> Me and Chris....lol

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 7/10/2003 10:13:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
damourc@... writes:

> We both agree that the coffee stain looks really good on
> your
> groundcloth...
>
> --
> Christopher Damour>>

Wrong Chris, Chris. But now that you mention that, *again*, it is a reminder of
why I always play on the other guy's cloth. Spaz. :)

J

[scott holder]

Wrong Chris, Chris. But now that you mention that, *again*, it is a reminder
of why I always play on the other guy's cloth. Spaz. :)

>I try to find really cheap beer (or better yet, somebody else's beer) and then
spill copious quantities of that on the opponents ground cloth. That way, when
he gets home and the whole gaming kit and car reek of stale beer, he's in for
some abuse by his spousal unit:):)

scott

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Mine is beer!
Kelly

damourc <damourc@...> wrote:
We both agree that the coffee stain looks really good on your
groundcloth...

--
Christopher Damour

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 JonCleaves@... wrote:

> In a message dated 7/10/2003 9:27:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Harlan.D.Garrett@... writes:
>
> > What Jon and Greg actually agree on something, what next?
> > >>
>
> Me and Chris....lol


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 12/10/2003 22:50:36 Central Standard Time,
Harlan.D.Garrett@... writes:
A question has arisen that we are hoping you can help us with. On page 65 of
the rule book it states 'rear rank shooting is not possible in woods,
orchards, and olive groves (unless the body is in skirmish formation), or to
"E" class.' The question is: Does this mean that rear rank shooting is not
possible at all for "E" class troops? Or does it mean that rear rank
shooting is not possible for "E" class troops in woods, orchards, and olive
groves (regardless of their formation)?
E class troops can not shoot from a rear rank, in terrain or out of it.

Jon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 1/22/2004 20:38:39 Central Standard Time,
pcollins@... writes:
Whilst I know that we generally play open games and not siege warfare, I
wonder why exactly most players generally do not pick artillery or other
more exotic choices like disguised camels, fire lances, flaming camel carts
and crazy cattle.
Is it just points cost or difficulty incorporating their use in game
strategy?
In my opinion, these things are in two categories and not one.

The 'exotic choices' are mostly gimmicks. They can be a problem when used on
newer players, much as they had greater effect when first used in history and
caused surprise. But veterans actually PREFER to see their opponent use them
because for the most part they are easy to use against the owner and cause
him more problems than benefit.

Artillery is different. Its big disadvantage is indeed lack of maneuver.
But integrated into a plan, artillery can be a major player on the battlefield.
NOT normally because of any casualties the arty does, but because of how it
affects the options of the other player. Mike Turner and I used Roman
artillery to great effect to help win us the Team nationals two years ago. It
didn't
kill anything on its own, but used to cause the opponent's battleline to
'bend' a certain way, it was decisive.

It typically dominates a particular avenue of approach. It needs to be
supported by one or two small units with the mission of chasing off the other
player's LI (we used legionary lanciarii).

There is no question it is better on a table with a high troops to front
ratio. If you are playing 1600 points of 15mm on an 8 foot long table, it is
much
harder to use than our situation where we had 2000 on a 6 foot long table.
That is why you will see it far more often in 1600 25mm events (played here on
an 8'x5') than 15mm on a 6'x4'.

Jon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 1/22/2004 22:28:44 Central Standard Time,
hrisikos@... writes:
Buy incindiaries for your units with BOW,
not JLS, but only if your opponent can have fortifications or
fighting transport (unless your list otherwise permits
incindiaries). The point is if your opponent's list (like Knights of
st. John, Greg?) allows temp forts, or fighting transport, WHETHER
HE BUYS THEM OR USES THEM OR NOT, you can tar and fire up the arrows
for any bow unit...>>

B or LB. :)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Bill Chriss]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/22/2004 20:38:39 Central Standard Time,
> pcollins@f... writes:
> Whilst I know that we generally play open games and not siege
warfare, I
> wonder why exactly most players generally do not pick artillery or
other
> more exotic choices like disguised camels, fire lances, flaming
camel carts
> and crazy cattle.
> Is it just points cost or difficulty incorporating their use in
game
> strategy?
>

I can't claim to have ever won anything, but as someone who has
regularly fielded both artillery and incindiary pigs (flamin' bacon)
for years, I still agree with Jon that they are different animals. I
would add that I use artillery not necessarily to bend opponents'
lines of battle, but rather to channel his approach. A significant
artillery unit forced marched to the middle of the table center is a
nice way to split you opponent in half and choose which half to
defeat in detail. Which is where the pigs come in. They are hidden
under the tunics of a unit that appears to easy meat for cavalry
and/or elephants, and then when they close in for the
kill...WHAMMO.. instant waver tests and 4 @ 4 damage from
incindiaries+disorder. Or throw them on a pike block or close order
foot archers to disorder them for a turn so you can shoot/melee them
dead. All for a measley 20 points. Similarly, many, many fairly good
players have little experience dealing with artillery and will
charge it with something other than LI. OOPS forgot about that
support shot of 12 or 18 or 24 or whatever at at least a 2. It;'s
really hard to frontally charge ART with anything but JLS armed LC
or LI and win.

I also try to set at least one avalanche per game and many
ambushes. Bottom line, avalanches, ambushes, incindiaries, and
artillery...I love the stuff. Use it all the time. Of course you
probably would too if your whole army was built around LTS armed LMI
peltasts or MI hoplites!! We Greeks are forced to be wily like
Odysseus! Try arming your JLS LI with incindiaries, just for fun!
That'll freak you opponent out. If I could find a Trojan horse
somewhere in the rules or army lists, that might come in handy too.


Greek

[Bill Chriss]

We Greeks are forced to be wily like
> Odysseus! Try arming your JLS LI with incindiaries, just for fun!
> That'll freak you opponent out. If I could find a Trojan horse
> somewhere in the rules or army lists, that might come in handy too.
>
>
> Greek


Correction/clarification: Buy incindiaries for your units with BOW,
not JLS, but only if your opponent can have fortifications or
fighting transport (unless your list otherwise permits
incindiaries). The point is if your opponent's list (like Knights of
st. John, Greg?) allows temp forts, or fighting transport, WHETHER
HE BUYS THEM OR USES THEM OR NOT, you can tar and fire up the arrows
for any bow unit...OOOO that Cav don't like that burning stuff.



Greek

So devious, underhanded, sinister and it just might woork! Love it!

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "hrisikos8" <hrisikos@D...>
wrote:
> We Greeks are forced to be wily like
> > Odysseus! Try arming your JLS LI with incindiaries, just for
fun!
> > That'll freak you opponent out. If I could find a Trojan horse
> > somewhere in the rules or army lists, that might come in handy
too.
> >
> >
> > Greek
>
>
> Correction/clarification: Buy incindiaries for your units with
BOW,
> not JLS, but only if your opponent can have fortifications or
> fighting transport (unless your list otherwise permits
> incindiaries). The point is if your opponent's list (like Knights
of
> st. John, Greg?) allows temp forts, or fighting transport, WHETHER
> HE BUYS THEM OR USES THEM OR NOT, you can tar and fire up the
arrows
> for any bow unit...OOOO that Cav don't like that burning stuff.
>
>
>
> Greek

[Greg Regets]

Last tournament, Bill scared the hell out of me with those things,
and I wasn't even playing him. ;-)

Actually, Bill's thoughts ring very true, and not just from the point
of view of what is "fun". In an army like Hoplites, it is worth going
for the edge these things might give you, since your troops will
obviously not give it to you on a regualr basis.

g



--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "hrisikos8" <hrisikos@D...>
wrote:
> --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 1/22/2004 20:38:39 Central Standard Time,
> > pcollins@f... writes:
> > Whilst I know that we generally play open games and not siege
> warfare, I
> > wonder why exactly most players generally do not pick artillery
or
> other
> > more exotic choices like disguised camels, fire lances, flaming
> camel carts
> > and crazy cattle.
> > Is it just points cost or difficulty incorporating their use in
> game
> > strategy?
> >
>
> I can't claim to have ever won anything, but as someone who has
> regularly fielded both artillery and incindiary pigs (flamin'
bacon)
> for years, I still agree with Jon that they are different animals.
I
> would add that I use artillery not necessarily to bend opponents'
> lines of battle, but rather to channel his approach. A significant
> artillery unit forced marched to the middle of the table center is
a
> nice way to split you opponent in half and choose which half to
> defeat in detail. Which is where the pigs come in. They are hidden
> under the tunics of a unit that appears to easy meat for cavalry
> and/or elephants, and then when they close in for the
> kill...WHAMMO.. instant waver tests and 4 @ 4 damage from
> incindiaries+disorder. Or throw them on a pike block or close order
> foot archers to disorder them for a turn so you can shoot/melee
them
> dead. All for a measley 20 points. Similarly, many, many fairly
good
> players have little experience dealing with artillery and will
> charge it with something other than LI. OOPS forgot about that
> support shot of 12 or 18 or 24 or whatever at at least a 2. It;'s
> really hard to frontally charge ART with anything but JLS armed LC
> or LI and win.
>
> I also try to set at least one avalanche per game and many
> ambushes. Bottom line, avalanches, ambushes, incindiaries, and
> artillery...I love the stuff. Use it all the time. Of course you
> probably would too if your whole army was built around LTS armed
LMI
> peltasts or MI hoplites!! We Greeks are forced to be wily like
> Odysseus! Try arming your JLS LI with incindiaries, just for fun!
> That'll freak you opponent out. If I could find a Trojan horse
> somewhere in the rules or army lists, that might come in handy too.
>
>
> Greek

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 2/10/2004 16:52:00 Central Standard Time,
pcollins@... writes:
Thanks Jon,
Old habits and terminology die hard.
I know. During playtest I had to put a quarter in a cup every time I said
rally back...

But it was done for a reason. The move from an exposed position (recall) and
the requirement to gather the men back into order after charging or fighting
(rally) are two separate things. It is easier to teach new players the
choices if they are kept separate.

Jon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mark Mallard]

At my request here is now a link on the UK SOA site. Maybe there will be
more interest from the UK now. I hope so.


mark mallard


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mark Stone]

--- On July 27 Matt said: ---

> I look forward to seeing and playing you in the
> future. My brother and I have found our Mecca!

Damn, Matt. Whether I won or lost, you've just made my whole Historicon
worthwhile. Maybe there is a next generation to carry all of this on.


-Mark Stone